Technical Help

DMassey

I am a homeowner (HO) looking for someone who will give me a quote to give me specific design assistance and technical assistance so I can change my gravity hot water system to circulating hot water. I currently have no heat in parts of my house (space heaters) so time (and my wife) are factors that I get going ASAP. I got the heat loss software from this site and completed same. I need to determine the head pressure and size the circulators. I also need some nuts and bolts assistance as far as how everything should go together. I am not looking for a freebee but my resources are limited so I have to do the installation myself. I hope that this can all be done via phone and the web to eliminate the expense of trips to my residence.

Unknown

start with this....

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=125

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=101

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=43

Noel

jim lockard

go ahead

and post some pixs of your heating system (near boiler)and let see what happens. J. Lockard

DMassey

I had already read and downloaded the article regarding circulator size and downloaded it, and I read the other articles this morning. I definitly don't want to make a mistake on circulatro sizing like the story about the one that was making the sound like a jet taking off. Regarding the TRVs, I am sure that they are a solution. My current system has one thermostat downstairs and that leads to the house being too hot upstairs. When I redo this thing I want to do at least two zones (one up and one down). This leads me back to my original problem. How can I determine head pressure and size my circulators correctly. I am leaning toward the Grundfos 3 speed because they can give me some adjustability if I do make a mistake. I calculated my heat loss to be 41,776 on the first floor and 13,745 on the second floor. Even though the square footages are close on the two floors I think that the first floor is so much more because it is over uninsulated basement/crawl space.

DMassey

Photos near boiler

Here are some photos near the boiler. The pipes are 2".
Both outlet and return tee once they come out of the boiler. One side of the tee covers the left side of the house and the other covers the right side. I think this is no good because each side supplies upstairs and downstairs.

Steamhead

I think I see your problem, Doug

That's a newer boiler trying to work like an old one. And it just doesn't work that way.

When that system was put in, boilers had two sets of inlet and outlet tappings. This, plus the wide spaces inside the boiler sections and the large pipes used in the system, kept resistance to flow at a bare minimum. There isn't much motive power available in a gravity hot-water system, which explains the boiler design and the big pipes.

That Weil-Mclain you have has a lot more internal resistance than the boiler it replaced. So there isn't as much flow thru the system as there should be. In a gravity system, the heat tries to go to the top of the system first. Therefore, with the restricted circulation thru the boiler, the top floor radiators will heat and the bottom ones won't. Sounds strange, but it's true.

The solution will be to add a circulator. Use the chart in Hot Tech Topics to see how much capacity you need. I think that boiler has a built-in air separator- if so, use it. If not, add one. And install the pump in the supply line going from the boiler out to the system, after the air separator. This will keep the radiators from filling with air. I have this setup on my own system, and it works very well.

This approach should balance your system without a lot of repiping. When the system works properly, think about putting TRVs in the rooms you want to keep cooler than the main house.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

DMassey

Determining circulator size

I did a heat loss on the house with the slant fin heat loss calculator and came up with 55,500 BTUH. Can I go with just one circulator or should I do one for each floor? How do I determine the head pressure to determine circulator size now that I have done the heat loss. The house is warmer upstairs than down and the radiators are much too large for the heat loss calcs that I came up with. So this brings me back to my original goal of paying someone for their technical expertise and design experience and me doing the hands on. Is any one out there willing?

Wayco Wayne_2

What;s

your location??? It would be best if someone could lay eyeballs on the situation. WW

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Mark J Strawcutter

gravity conversion

Don't worry about re-piping for upstairs/downstairs zoning. Instead, use TRVs on all radiators effectively creating a separate zone for each room. Switch to constant circulation with outdoor reset. Don't forget a differential pressure bypass valve for when all the TRVs are closed.

I don't like "rules of thumb" but I've heard some people just use 3.5 feet of head for gravity conversion systems.

The best thing to do is add up pipe lengths and sizes, number of fittings and sizes, and find out the drop thru your boiler. There is software available to compute drop/loss using that info.

Yet another approach is to make an educated guess using "rules of thumb" but put a balancing valve downstream of the circ to "add head" if necessary.

Mark

DMassey

Location

This would be a heck of a site visit for you. I am on the North Fork of eastern Long Island. I tried the closest guy from this web sites locator but he doesn't return my calls or emails.

DMassey

TRV

What do you recommend for a TRV? I looked at the Danfoss web site and they have a large selection. All mine are 3/4" or 1". Another issue is that I want to replace some of my cast iron behemoths with the European style flat panel radiators. Some of my radiators are as large as 12" deep and take up a lot of room so I want to go to something smaller. I was told that I shouldn't mix these on the same zone as cast iron radiators. Is that true?

Steamhead

Size your circ

according to the amount of radiation you have in square feet EDR. This may be greater than the heat-loss- if so, the rads and boiler will simply run at a lower water temperature. You'll probably still end up with a circ that seems small- but it will work great!

Try Matt "Mad Dog" Sweeney- he's in Floral Park. Here's the link to his ad:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm.cfm?id=210&Step=30

If it was he who didn't get back to you, he's probably running "no heat" calls like most of us do when it gets real cold.

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DMassey

Mad Dog

It was not he who did not get back to me. But I can believe that every tradesman in the Northeast is swamped. I spoke with three people today that had burst pipes and I am not even in the business!