Burnham series 2 won't stay lit. I'm cold.....

Josh Ormsby

Hello,

I hope you can help.

I had a Burnham Series 2 installed by a v.well known company here in Eastern Massachusetts this summer. It replaced the original gravity fed hot water system. Now, on the coldest weekend of the year it won't stay lit.

The company who installed it came out to look at it, and the plumber did some quick tests and found that my gas pressure was low. This was aparently causing the gas valve to only get to the ignition stage. The burner goes on for 10-20 seconds, but it never opens up full, it just shuts off.

So I called the gas company and when they came out they couldn't find any evidence of problems with the gas pressure, but that they would snake the line to the main to clear any obstructions. Well I got a call several hours later explaining that they had a large number of calls from homeowners with new equipment that had become cloged at the valve and I should have my plumber come back and take a look at it (with no check on the line from the street).

The company who installed it has a service waiting list something like 500 calls long and it will be days before they can come back.

So here are some questions...

Is a Honeywell SV 9600 gas valve in a Burnham Series 2, more likely to be cloged with something, or affected by fluctuations in gas pressure?

What is the normal operating gas pressure of residential gas boiler?

How old do gas meters get before they have to be replaced?

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

Thank you,
Josh

Steamhead

Low gas pressure

can have a number of causes. First thing I'd want to know is, do the other gas appliances in the house have enough pressure to work normally? If not, TURN THEM OFF and call the gas company back- the problem is on their side of the meter. This condition can cause an explosion or fire, so don't use any gas appliances until it's fixed.

If only the boiler is malfunctioning and your regular contractor can't get to it, try the Find a Contractor page of this site to locate someone who might be able to get there faster.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Josh Ormsby

Other appliances

The only other gas appliances are the dryer and stove.

I have noticed that the flame on the stove will get smaller when the boiler would kick in.

It's not happening now that that the boiler won't go to full power.

tim smith_2

low gas pressure

Sounds like low gas from the utlities meter. We have ran it to this many times over the last 20 years. Sometimes the meter starts to freeze up and sometimes it flat out is lack of supply from the utility. If your plumber tested the incoming gas pressure and it's below 5" the gas company is running low. This just occurred here in Seattle a week ago when we had a cold snap, which is nothing like you guy's are having. Good luck. Tim

Greg Swob

when they or other service firm does arrive

have the dwelling gas piping sizing also checked out to determine it meets or exceeds that for the applied loads. At the gas meter set, a regulator vent can freeze over or become snow packed affecting it's operation. As discussed prior, there may easily be water in the gas supply coupled with extreme cold temps causing freeze ups. It's amazing what 'junk' may be in the gas supply. Another possible factor, the local distribution and supply system may be undersized or poorly looped/zoned to meet it's applied loads.

We are in serious agricultural irrigation country and see far, more NG usage in the summer months than winter just running irrigation wells. We are also just miles from major NG fields and the folks in the gas well/collection region have problems with impurities, water mostly then Hyd. Sulphide, etc. Also, a lot of low Btu gas ranging from >950 (good) to <400 (bad) Btu is not all that uncommon from some wells. The final blend many miles or states away when it reaches your home?

Regulator stations freeze up, (even in summer months here) due to increasingly heavy loads on overtaxed distribution pipeline systems. Older systems that are overtaxed and then added on to meet growth demands cause maintenance headaches to consumers and suppliers. Overall, there are a lot of variables which may factor in to your situation. Greg

Unknown

Josh are you on Keyspans lines?

If so then some areas that are low pressure areas may have pressure problems in extreme cold temperatures. Do you have just a meter on your line? Is it indoors or outdoors? Is there a pressure regulator before the meter? Did anyone take an actual gas pressure? Certainly the gas company should have done that. Call them up and get tough with them. Do you have elderly or children in the house? What did they say when you called them was clogging the valves? That sounds real strange to me here in New England. Down near the gas fields there is dirty gas, but up here in NE we do not typically have that problem.

The normal operating pressure for gas systems and you have a Smart Valve is 5" W.C. minimum pressure. Most of the time the pressure is 6 to 7 inches. As long as the pressure stays at 5" you are safe. Do not use any other appliances just the heat.

Gas meters are typically not the problem they are only registering the flow of gas and not controlling pressure. Are other people on your street having a problem? If they are then you have a utility pressure problem which is not going to be solved until it warms up. They may boost pressure sometimes to try to overcome their problem then again they may not.

Unknown

Josh

The gas valves supplied on Burnham Series 2 Natural Gas boilers are meant to operate on pressures ranging from 4.5" w.c.minimum to 14" w.c. maximum. If inlet pressures to the gas valve drop below that point, the boiler pilot will ignite, the gas train will ignite with 0.7" w.c. of pressure and will then boost to a full manifold pressure of 3.5" w.c..If the inlet pressure drops below 4.5" w.c. during that process, the ignition sequence will shut down and then retry. This is a built-in safety feature to guard against the possibility of an incorrect air to fuel ratio which could result in a sooty flame and possible sootup of the heat exchanger. These valves are no more susceptable to debris from the system gas piping than any other brand or type of valve. They have a conical screen on the inlet side of the valve to protect the inner workings from debris.


These valves are used on many different brands of equipment so this is not just common to Burnham equipment. Unfortunately, predicaments such this one have overtaxed the service companies during this cold spell. I have been in western NY since Friday and the temperatures here were 15 below yesterday morning. Upon stopping for a cup of coffee yesterday morning, I ran into 2 heating contractors that had been at it for 42 hours straight. Hope this helps.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

Josh Ormsby

Pressure very low.

Well, the plumber who came out had a guage and he measured 4" of water at the burner when I turned on the gas burners on the stove.

The inspector from Keyspan only had a pipe wrench and a flashlight. She loosened the fittings at the meter (which is inside) and listened to the gas flow and then tightened is back up. She must have had calibrated ears.

Anyway I callled the gas co. again and they sent someone over this evening and they had me turn on the stove etc.

...

Wait the cavelry just arrived, and they brought a backhoe.

They were a bit disappionted when they saw my service that comes straight out of the slab in the basement, and not through the wall. Now they will have to break through the floor to ge at the last elbow on the line.

Wish me luk...

Thanks,
Josh

Unknown

4\" at the stove

assuming you are talking about the gas cooking stove and that pressure was measured at the top burner. If it was and you had 4" W.C. that is normal as it was measured after the regulator on the gas range. A lot of questions here and things that do not make sense??????????????

This is a real nightmare, why do they have to break up the floor? Just go outside dig a hole at the main and spike the tee on the main. Then dig at the house cut the service and clear the line, run an insert into the existing line reconnect and they are done.

Josh Ormsby

4\" pressure

The pressure was measured at the burner valve in the boiler. It dropped to 4" when I turned on the stove burners, and the boiler valve would close.

In the last two monthes I have been able to see when the boiler kicked in by watching the size of the flame on my stove.

So last night they had to break up the floor because the gas line came through my foundation about 18" below the floor then it turned 90 and came out verticaly into my basement. The guy who dug it out said that the elbow was so rusty that snakeing it wouldnt have done much good. There was no good way uncouple the pipe at the floor level either.


Josh

Josh Ormsby

4\" pressure