Quik Trak install

John Jr

I have a house that I installed Quik Trak in. Now what do most of you tell your contractors or home owners about insulating under the floors? Looking for feedback!

J.C.A._3

Insulate as normal.

The Quicktrack or Climate Panel both have reflective bottoms so the pipes will radiate the heat upward.

If there isn't any insulation under the floor, explain nicely how this will increase the return on their investment, and suggest it highly. Most customers will comply, if the job was done "on time and at or below budget/bid".This has been my experience ...so far. Chris

John Jr

Bottom of Quik Trac

Chris, I believe the metal on the bottom of the wood is for heat transfer not for or reflecting heat upward. Wirsbo suggest a min of R-19 under the panel for them to work right.

The house I’m talking about the insulation contractor installed the insulation 8” from the bottom of the floor. So that leaves an air gap of 8” between the bottom of the sub-floor and the insulation. That’s a big area to heat and then if there is any air moving under there taking the heat down instead of up.

kevin coppinger_4

Push it up to the

floor. What did you figure for insulation R value in the original heat loss? The CDAM book from Wirsbo will give you all the proper layouts and installs. kpc

John Jr

Yes I would love to be able to do that but the house is finished now. In the heat loss I figured for the insulation to be R-19 and placed against the sub-floor. I just recently found that there is an 8” gap between the two. What options do I have now? I was told the insulation guy said it had to be that way. He has been to seminars about radiant heat and insulation and you need to have the air gap for it to work right. The metal under the tubing will push the heat up.

J.C.A._3

John Jr.,

You're right . The reflective material is for "distribution". But , as I said, normal insulation placement would be enough for a normal, properly calculated space.

I've done underfloor installs, but only when the architect forgot about the added size of doing a "raised panel" install. It wreaks havoc with thresholds and doorway trim, but I still think that a "normally" insulated underfloor placement will work fine.

As always, every install provides it's own unique set of rules, and that's what seperates the Men from the Boys. Go with what you know, and make sure that everyone along the chain knows why and "how much". The later seems to be the biggest factor for some strange reason.(Quality and comfort ARE priceless).


Saw your message response posted about the same time I was posting. As for not being able to do much about the insulation now, the only thing I can say is to sit by and watch the area react. If the delta T drops below what you've designed for the only thing you can do , without tearing out the ceiling, is to raise the output temp. to get your desired temp. drop.

Find the "happy medium" and you'll be a hero! Don't forget to inform us all of what you find. I'm sure that you aren't the only one who's ever dealt with this! Chris

kevin coppinger_4

I guess this ....

would have to be a lesson to us all of how imporatant communication is, w/ everyone who is involved w/ the project. The gap, even in a staple up need only be 2". With joist trac and quic trac you don't have that space...hopefully you will be fine..what are they using for flooring? Hopefully something low in a r-value! kpc

John Jr

Kevin, the problem with this is I did give them a sheet that informs them that the insulation must be installed with no air gaps. The onwers are living in the house now and some of the rooms are having a problem heating. I already increased the temp on the loops but they are still having a problem. I told the builder that a blower door test should be done on the building to see how tight the building is. Heat lost for the house came out at 100,000 Btu/hr i have a 134,000 Btu/hr boiler and they thing the boiler is too small. I watch the zones open for about 10 - 15 mins and then close for 10 -15 mins and then open again. So where is the heat going?

kevin coppinger_4

don't you love it....

when people don't read the instructions! From the sound of it,the heat is being satisfied, if the zone(s)are shutting off for 10-15 min. Can you change any of the valves flow rates in the rooms that are getting cold? Are there ceiling fans on in those rooms?I assume the 134K boiler is a IBR number not a DOE number...kpc

Earthfire

System specifications

Ain't it wonderful when some one else changes the specs on your project ,cause they know better. We use written specs that we give to the GC and property owner and subs that install insulation, firestopping, lighting & wiring, flooring and what not over and around our piping systems. Also we pull surprise inspections to verify adhearance to same.If specs not adheared to Warranty is VOIDED. Why do people say I have an attitude problem??

Earthfire

where is the heat

With that big an air space the heat is either leaving thru the rim joist or is following any chases in the walls up into the attic or both. What did they use for joist in the house? R-19 = 6" + 8" + 14", either I joist or truss. Bet the rim joist isn'tinsulated and sealed properly.

John Jr

Yes the I joist are 14". The problem is the contractor (GC) seems to be on the ball and watch the building process pretty good. Yes there are a lot of holes in this house for pipes going up interior walls.

Yes it is IBR. (134,000)

I am tring very hard to work with the owner and GC to try to get this right and have checked all my equipment twice and went over my heat loss to see if I missed anything and can't see that I missed anything. But if I change the air change rate the Btu's jump up fast.

kevin coppinger_4

as always the...

air infiltration is the largest part of a heat loss. I t is also the hardest to determine UNLESS you have a blower door in your back pocket.Even if you did put in a oversized boiler the problem would still be there... Best of luck. kpc