Steam Boiler Fill Level Problem

Hal

I'm the new homeowner of an old house. One pipe, oil fired steam, four story row house

My "Peerless" boiler wants to raise the fill level after water leaves the boiler as steam before condensate has a chance to return. I purchased and read two books by our host, Dan and have learned a lot, but need help proceeding.

- The wet return may be partially clogged, but there are no cleanouts on the soldered copper piping.

- If it's not the wet return, is it possible that the auto feed control needs adjustment?

- The near boiler piping is copper and is not insulated. How serious is this?

I have some hammering in one riser, and I suspect high water may be part of the problem. Also, we have removed and replaced some radiators while floor sanding and refinishing has been done, and I suspect the piping may not be pitched properly under the floor.

It may be interesting to note that we called one of the professionsals listed in the reference section of this website. He said on the phone he could fix the problem for $125. When he came to the house, he looked at the system and told us all our problems, including that the boiler itself was oversized. He made this calculation by guessing the square feet of our radiation, then adjusted the numbers down to make it come out more wrong. He also bragged about fixing some lady's boiler with a switch or something and charged her $10,000 (ten thousand dollars).

He took our $125 for his time and left without fixing anything, not even making any concrete recommendations, except that he could replace the copper headers with iron pipe for $3,400.

Are these prices reasonable?
Is this what I can expect from the other heating guys on the list?
Where should I start?

I know it seeems like a lot to ask, but I would be grateful for any pointers, tips, suggestions or ideas.

Unknown

Boiler water level

There are several water levels you need to know about.

1. The low water level.

That is a water about 1/2" above the bottom nut on the gauge glass. When the water level drops below that line the low water cutoff shuts the burner down to prevent a dry fire.

2. The fill level.

That is the line where the automatic feeder or hand fill line is set to store enough water to make steam and supply steam for about 10 minutes before condensate returns to the boiler.

Under proper operating conditions the burner will not shut off, steam will be supplied continuously during the duty cycle of the boiler. Typically that line may be about 1" above the low water cut off shut down level. This may vary from boiler to boiler.

3. The standing water level.

The standing water level is the water level that is reached after some time of operation. That water level is determined by the auto feeder and the returning condensate water. That water level may reach 1/2 to 2/3rds of the gauge glass.

The standing water level is the sum total of the water supplied by the auto feeder and the returned condensate.
That water level can vary from boiler to boiler.

If the your boiler has a water level above 2/3rds the gauge glass you may have to lower the controller for the auto feeder.

Many auto feeders are controlled elctrically by the position of the low water cutoff. If that is the case you need to lower the low water cutoff to the level that the boiler manufacturer recommends. Typically the minimum water level is 1/2" above the bottom nut on the gauge glass.

The copper piping used as the steam header is a no no. The replacement of that piping is expensive.

Typically the labor charges from a contractor for two men per day is about $1000.00 plus material with a minimum 30% mark up.

If you are strapped for cash right now insulate the piping with 2" fiberglass insulation, that may help alleviate some of the condition with banging and or flooding.

The copper pipe used on the return is O.K. that does not need insulation.

Jake

Hal

Jake,

Thank you for the prompt reply.

to summarize:
"low water level" = burner shuts down to prevent damage or worse. (1/2 inch from bottom of glass)
"fill level" = the boiler has produced about 10 minutes of steam (1 inch from bottom of glass)
"standing water level" = the boiler has been operating for some extended period of time (1/2 to 2/3 of the glass)

OK, now what should the level be when the boiler is not producing steam and all the condensate has returned?
For example, when the system has been off for a few hours or a day or a season.

There is a line printed on the boiler with a label that says "minimum water level". If "minimum water level" is the same as "low water level" as you describe above there is a discrepancy with the glass guage. The bottom nut of the glass guage is already above the minimum as shown on the boiler. Is it possible that the glass guage is not mounted at the correct level so that the definitions of the various fill levels may not be correct relative to my guage?

Hal

Stonybrook

Hal

Did you find a solution to your bolier water level problem?

Weezbo

Hmmm....

You asked a question that seems intriquing to me....are all the professionals here like this...? I think you may have found some one who knows the work and views His time and experience as Extremely valuable....in the case of your story about some little old lady's boiler... i must say i am a little Miffed not that i doubt what you say,.. it just seems really different....i would suggest you get a second opinion... About your steam boiler,it isnt something you the home owner should be arbitrairly freaking with,this isnt a criticsism it is the truth. a steam boiler man can see hey This site glass is off a blah blah blah that device is stuck closed ,this pressure reading is either wrong or that such and such is totally Buggered up and not go about fixing things in such a way as to endanger your life.See you might get some information and do something say twisting a valve and think it was the thing to do....until the hammering began...really get a second opinion.

Dale

Second opinion

I too suggest a second opinion, and I would suggest getting the other steam book on this site and reading that too. I don't trust a person who brags. I may have missed it but is yours a gravity return or is there a condensate or feed pump? If the header and returns are copper the boiler was replaced by a knuckle head and the near boiler pipeing is probably wrong. Since you have the books do your own edr check and see if boiler capacity is OK. Go to the boiler manufacturer and see what distance the boiler cold fill line should be, from what you say the sight glass may be installed wrong. I doubt the dead men made a mistake on the rad supply piping pitch. I would bet you have piping sag in the basement, main vent problems, an A dimension that needs to be verified and some wet return to replace. Keep reading, ready, fire, aim is expensive with a steam system.

Alan_6

boiler piping

Is there a installation book on site? The near boilerpiping,steam equalizer, hartford loop,... would be the first place to start.