Help - I'm in trouble

Ken C.

Got myself in a big jam and don't know how to fix this. I tried to replace an angle radiator valve (my first one) and botched it up. Instead of using a wrench to remove the valve from the 1" riser, I used a sawzall to cut the valve off, which I think was my first mistake, but a plumber I used to work for recommended this method. After disconnecting the union, I cut the valve body off horizontally, just leaving the threaded portion of the valve. I then made a few vertical cuts so I could chisel the brass female threads off the steel riser's threads. But I wasn't careful enough with the sawzall and ended up cutting into the steel riser threads. Since the riser is only about 2 inches above floor level, there is not enough clearance to re-thread the riser, and besides, the radiator valve would be too low if I re-threaded the existing riser. The homeowner doesn't want me to open up the hardwood floor, or the ceiling below (although the ceiling is already damaged from a water leak that was left untended for a long time). The only option I can think of is to try to unscrew the riser, but this is risky since it's inviting another leak inside the floor or wall. For now, I shut the zone off since I can't cap off the riser (this is a 2-pipe, forced hot water system using old cast-iron radiators, look like steam radiators), but I will have to go back in a couple days to fix the problem. Any ideas how to get myself out of this disaster? Should I have just used a couple of pipe wrenches to unscrew the valve, instead of cutting it off? The plumber who cuts them off said he uses that method because if the riser turns just a little bit, you could end up with a leak in the floor. But obviously, cutting the valve off is equally risky.

John Ruhnke1

Some things are best left to experts................

Ken,

Why not just let a plumber or heating technician finish the job, so things get done right. There are still a lot more things that can go wrong on this job. The feed valve could break while purging the system, the relief valve could then pop and flood the basement. You will most likely need to break the ceiling to fix this one. It takes many many years of training and experience to become a good plumber. I'm sorry but you can't learn all of this over night. Leave this one to the experts.

JR

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[Deleted User]

well, your plumber friend

should have been the one to do it..but hind site is 20/20..you will have to unscrew the riser..it wont be easy..try to find something to put in the pipe riser, such as a smaller pipe, to try to keep the riser from collapsing as you wrench on it..use a 24'' pipe wrench and you will probably have to put a piece of 2'' pipe down its handle for added leverage..i put my feet against the wall and pull as if rowing a boat..

John Ruhnke1

Oh noooo.............

Gerry,

That might work for you because you have developed a feel for using the wrenches but Ken could very easily break some pipes off in the floor below and cause more damage.

JR

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scrook_2

how bad...

are the cuts into the riser threads? If slight it is possible that you may be able to use a setting type industrial/instrumentation/hydraulics pipe thread *sealant* (not ordinary dope) to seal it, though it will take an act of God (or a "fire wrench") to ever get it apart again.

You should probably bring your plumber friend in on the job though, so as not to dig yourself any deeper.

Earthfire

thread repair

You could try brazing the thread area and rethreading it, but you would have a high risk of setting the house on fire .( a lot of heat from the torch that close to the wood floor) the best bet is to open the ceiling and work fron underneath as the new valve is probable a different height dimension from the old one and you should adjust the nipple lenght any way.

John@Reliable_5

How far into threads?

As long as you didn't cut all the way thru, try this, wrap pipe with piping tape and dope both pipe and valve. You could also use epoxy on pipe if cut is all the way thru, fill in cut and when use a small file to make "new threads" don't ask how I know this can work! Hope this helps and good luck John@Reliable

bob young

heavy lampwick. [spool quickwick.] if that don't work---new section of riser. not a big selection.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

David Sutton_3

Ken try

using liquid steel to fill the grove you made in the pipe let it set, almost all the way, send a steel coupling down the tread to set the tread groves in the liquid steel, when its set up soild, wrap the treads with lead wool, and a good soft setting pipe dope. then install the new brass valve. good luck , this is a good learning moment. grow from this. David

bob young

WOW That sounds like a great idea. you can probably charge plenty for a hi-tech method like that. how long do you gaurantee it for in writing ? would it work on 4 " hi-pressure steam ?

David Sutton_3

i would not bob

its not that strong to handle high presure but it will hold on res. steam, if you let it cure enuff before use,

one note how many of us made stupid mistakes in the begining, thats how we learn sometimes. lets build up one another , share the knowlage and watch the trade grow strong, just my thoughts ...David

Floyd_5

Sounds like a job for Expando...

If you can find it, it will bail your butt otta a big jam....

It's a black powder that you mix with water (or spit), brush it on the pipe, screw on the valve and let it set....then...
hope you NEVER have to remove the valve!!!

Floyd

Ken C.

To answer your first question, there are no threads remaining on the riser. After I mangled the threads, I cut them off, hoping I would just be able to re-thread them with a hand die. But I wasn't thinking when I did that, given the lack of clearance to use a ratchet die. Also, to everyone who suggests that I should have called a plumber, well, it is the other way around. I AM the plumber who was called by the homeowner.

Unknown

Well said Dave

Not one of us is so good that we don't make mistakes . People sharing their expertise here has got me through some bad jams in the past . I try to share the limited things I know in the most positive way I can too . You're a good man Dave .

bob young

put it in reverse !!!

reverse the dies in the stock or get a square solid 1 " die and use minus stock. add a 1 " extension coupling and you could be good to go.

[Deleted User]

yup, i remember

changing a main water inlet valve to a residence, cut the union off what i thought in the dark corner was a 1'' copper pipe...opps....3/4'' lead....bummer..but i learned from it..

Unknown

OK , I'm not sure how I feel about these

but I found this catalog online

http://www.wal-rich.com/Online_Catalog/Dresser.pdf

Dresser Couplings makes what you might be able to use . They have an elbow rated for 150 psi and 300 degrees , but its showing its for steam . It makes the seal to the outer side of the pipe with a special rubber type gasket . Maybe that same ell can be used for hot water , I would give them a call to make sure it's the right product . I've seen Dresser Couplings used alot to change out a bad oil tank vent , and I have used them for patches on a handful of steam returns , but never for hot water heat . Good luck on the repair , it's gonna be a tough one .

Ken C.

How did you fix that one?

Terry St.James_2

Your best bet is to try and loosen the pipe from above. Please do not try and repair it...it is done for. You have to cut a hole in the ceiling below...at least 12 x 12. Then get yourself an access door and place it there.They fit in quite easily.
If you chance repairing it....be prepared for a flood tomorrow or a month from now. An access panel will save a patch job and painting. And you will sleep better too.
Next time try to get the valve off with a pipe wrench...if not...use ur turbo torch and heat the valve portion where the threads go in...heat it good...then get the wrenches back on it again. A saw should be the very last resort.