help with basement radiator

Gian in Chicago

I have refinished a large room in my basement and convinced myself it would be cheaper to tap into my existing closed loop hot water system than to use electric heat down there. There was a hot water and a cold water return pipe already there and capped off (this house was built in 1927, the boiler is maybe 10 years old). I used the hot water pipe that was there, but the return was in pretty bad shape so I ran new copper and tapped into the return loop by the boiler. I hooked up the radiator and bled it and it got nice and hot as it filled with hot water from the system. The problem is since then it isn't getting hot. I don't think the water is circulating through it. The question is do I need an additional (There is one just before the boiler already) pump, if so where in the loop should I install it? What considerations are there when buying a pump?

Any held would be very much appreciated.

Gian in Chicago

help with basement radiator

I have refinished a large room in my basement and convinced myself it would be cheaper to tap into my existing closed loop hot water system than to use electric heat down there. There was a hot water and a cold water return pipe already there and capped off (this house was built in 1927, the boiler is maybe 10 years old). I used the hot water pipe that was there, but the return was in pretty bad shape so I ran new copper and tapped into the return loop by the boiler. I hooked up the radiator and bled it and it got nice and hot as it filled with hot water from the system. The problem is since then it isn't getting hot. I don't think the water is circulating through it. The question is do I need an additional (There is one just before the boiler already) pump, if so where in the loop should I install it? What considerations are there when buying a pump?

Any held would be very much appreciated.

Big Ed

I would have to agree with you

I would assume it is not heating do to lack of flow. Flow is caused by a pressure drop across the radiator. I would say there is none or too small of a pressure drop to move the water. A circulator is not really a pump but a device that creates a pressure drop across a heating loop.

Intalling a circulator on the basement zone would be the best way to go beyond correcting the problem with your setup . If you zone the basement you would have better control ,comfort and efficaiencies .

To fix your problem or zone we need to know the way the system is piped as well as the pipe work you have performed .

To heat a area we need to know what size radiation is needed . To find that out we first have to figure the heatloss of that area. A basement tends to come in with a small heat loss number compaired to the floors above ground . One of the reasons zoning if preferred ..

Gian in Chicago

thanks....

I'm not sure I understand exactly, but here are some details, thanks so much for your response. I'll try to walk you through the path of the water through the new rad. There is a radiator just above the one I installed; it is in the living room on the main floor of the house. Teed off that there is a pipe (that was capped off) that I ran to the new radiator. I used 1" copper pipe. The pipe goes through a valve into the bottom of the new radiator; about a five foot vertical drop. For the return, I also used 1" copper, about 30 feet total. The first section goes up about 6 feet, laterally about 2 feet down about 3 feet, laterally for about 20 feet and the up about 2 feet into the return loop right by the boiler. The room is about 12 feet by 20 feet and is to some extent heated by several pipes up by the ceiling that run to rads upstairs. But in the very cold winter, the room as it is gets very cold. The new radiator is actually very old, it is iron I think (weighs about 200 lbs) 10 sections, about 3 feet high.

Hope this helps, thanks so much again!

Gian

Big Ed

Questions

How do you purge your basement loop?

Where is the location of the circulator ?

Where did you tee the return of your loop by the boiler, in reference to the circulator ?

On your heating pipes ,Is there just one pipe that runs around the house and the radiators are teed off that single pipe or the radiators are teed off to different pipes ?

Gian in Chicago

> I have refinished a large room in my basement and

> convinced myself it would be cheaper to tap into

> my existing closed loop hot water system than to

> use electric heat down there. There was a hot

> water and a cold water return pipe already there

> and capped off (this house was built in 1927,

> the boiler is maybe 10 years old). I used the

> hot water pipe that was there, but the return was

> in pretty bad shape so I ran new copper and

> tapped into the return loop by the boiler. I

> hooked up the radiator and bled it and it got

> nice and hot as it filled with hot water from the

> system. The problem is since then it isn't

> getting hot. I don't think the water is

> circulating through it. The question is do I

> need an additional (There is one just before the

> boiler already) pump, if so where in the loop

> should I install it? What considerations are

> there when buying a pump?

>

> Any held would be

> very much appreciated.

Gian in Chicago

How do you purge your basement loop?

I'm not sure what this means, but during the install, I drained the entire system from a valve on the boiler.


Where is the location of the circulator ?

The existing circulator is located just next to the boiler at the end of the return loop.


Where did you tee the return of your loop by the boiler, in reference to the circulator ?

I teed the return of the basement loop just near the circulator, about 5 feet upstream of it.


On your heating pipes ,Is there just one pipe that runs around the house and the radiators are teed off that single pipe or the radiators are teed off to different pipes ?

There are two main send and return loops and several radiators in parallel off each of the main loops. I have 11 radiators (including the new cold one) total. It is a fairly large house.


Thanks so much and let me know what else you need to know to help!

Gian

Gian in Chicago

answers..

How do you purge your basement loop?

I'm not sure what this means, but during the install, I drained the entire system from a valve on the boiler.

Where is the location of the circulator ?

The existing circulator is located just next to the boiler at the end of the return loop.

Where did you tee the return of your loop by the boiler, in reference to the circulator ?

I teed the return of the basement loop just near the circulator, about 5 feet upstream of it.

On your heating pipes ,Is there just one pipe that runs around the house and the radiators are teed off that single pipe or the radiators are teed off to different pipes ?

There are two main send and return loops and several radiators in parallel off each of the main loops. I have 11 radiators (including the new cold one) total. It is a fairly large house.

Thanks so much and let me know what else you need to know to help!

Gian

Big Ed

Airtrap

The reason why it does not heat is because of a air trap in your loop . Purge means to remove the air . The rise and fall of the return is a air trap which is holding air. A ball valve with a drain valve on the radiator side of the loop would help remove the air if install on the end of the loop or a drain-ball-drain set up if installed somewhere in the center of the loop. The ball valve or a globe valve would be needed anyway to balanced your loop . The one inch pipe is a big overkill for your set up and I'am sure it needs to be throttled down.. A TRV control valve would be a nice addition to your loop for temperature control..It's a valve that opens and closes , controled by the temperature of the room. It is also adjustible....

Gian in Chicago

ball, drain, globe?

Thanks Big Ed. This makes sense. I used 1" in my loop since that's what used everywhere else in the system where there is new pipe. The old pipes are even bigger. I have a couple other questions. You've probably figured out I don't know all the vocabulary. What are ball, drain, and globe valves? What do you mean by the radiator side of the loop?

Thanks again,

G

Big Ed

Valves

Ball valve= those valves with the straight handle which is connected to a internal ball with a hole through . Ball spins to close off - open flow .Can be used as a throttle valve

Globe valve= valve which uses a washer and seat type shut off. Can be used as a throttle valve

Draw off valve = water spigot , drain valve, allows a hose to be attached to to the system to draw water.

You need to close off one end of the loop and force the air out with water pressure from the open side of the loop . So the draw off valve needs to be on the loop or radiator side of the shut off valve..

Gian in Chicago

well Big Ed

It's fixed. Thanks for your advice you were right on. Today I put a draw off valve and a ball valve in my basement loop. I was able to fill the system and then open the draw valve to get the air out. Now it's heating up nicely. I'll probably leave it alone for the winter and put in the temperature sensitive valve depending on how it goes.

Thanks again,

G

Big Ed

Have a Warm Winter....