combustion analyzers? fyritepro 125, good buy?

Rudy

Looking to buy an analyzer, thinking fyrerite pro 125, any thoughts?

[Deleted User]

i have one and

i love it..i cant picture doing a service call without my bacharach, ive found so many problems that i would not have found its like an old friend now..lets put it this way, if the unit broke on the job and i needed another unit asap, i would get another bacharach. hope this helps

Rudy

Thanks, just trying to weigh the pros and cons of a digital and and say bacharach smoke pump kit.

Earthfire

smoke pump kit

Your still going to use your smoke pump, but with the digital combustion analyzers you have no nasty corrosive oils to deal with, And the digital readout lets you see the results of any adjustments as you make them.I've been using a Bacharach PCA 55 for a few years now and wouldn't go back to working with a wet kit on a bet. Also the units are preprogramed to work with multipe fuels: nat.gas, lp,#1 oil, #2 oil,etc. The only draw back is the annual oxygen sensor replacement and calibration cost. But that applies to any electronic combustion analyzer.

kk_2

Is the sensor replacement and calibration requirement a function of how many times it's used, or a time related thing? In other words, if you did half as many measurements, would it only need a new sensor and calibration every two years instead of every year?

Any input on that?

Earthfire

Sensor life

The service people told me if you leave the analyzer on the shelf the sensor will still die. If it is run continuously, that will shorten its life span. But once it is exposed to air it has a finite life span. Excessively high Co levels will shorten that life span

[Deleted User]

both sensors in mine

lasted two years before replacement..i was told they would have lasted longer but i wasn't purging the unit long enough after its use..

rudy_2

Sensor life

There are only three (major) sensor manufacturers on the planet so just about all analyzer manufacturers use the same sensors.

Like Earthfire said, once they are taken out of the sealed container, they have a certain life span and even in the container they have a shelf life.

As soon as the O2 sensor is opened, it is sensing O2 7/24/365 - seems like the average life span for a Pro O2 sensor is about 1 and 1/2 years.

CO sensors generally last 3 - 5 years depending on how much CO they are exposed to (I toasted one in about 15 minutes when left it in the exhaust of my truck at 5,000 ppm – I am a professional and the plant sent me a new one – no cost, so don’t try this yourself!!)

With Bacharach instruments (as well as some other manufacturers) both sensors are warranted for two years in a new instrument (to accommodate for shelf life), replacement sensors are warranted for 1 year.

Like Gerry said, it's a good idea to post purge the instrument for 5 - 10 minutes after testing on a job – with any instrument. CO remaining in the instrument will continue to react with the sensor and flue gas moisture will shorten sensor life as well. The sensors and components are designed to be 'exposed' to condensate but not 'soaked' in it...

CO sensor calibration is a controversial issue. The sensor manufacturers recommend every 6 months. If you are doing alot of ambient testing, that's probably a good idea. My experience calibrating CO sensors is that after a year or so, they are generally off by about 20 ppm with 500 ppm cal gas.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Pro's were designed to be easily calibrated by a contractor. A calibration kit is around $250, tanks of gas are around $100. You can probably get 25 to 30 calibrations from a tank so it's a lot less expensive and more convenient to do it yourself. Plus, if you ever have any doubts about the CO reading, you can easily check it. Earthfire’s PCA has a ‘hydrogen compensated’ CO sensor so that instrument (while being more accurate on high flame temp applications) is much more difficult to calibrate.

I try to make sure folks understand that you need to anticipate an average $150 a year to maintain an electronic analyzer, but like Gerry, Earthfire, Murph' and others on this board I’m sure would agree, it really makes doing installs and service much more professional, precise and a lot more enjoyable!!

If you go to www.bacharach-training.com, there is an ‘online’ operator’s manual you could take a look at to familiarize yourself with the instrument – and don’t hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions.

Murph'_4

don't forget .......

to get the printer, real life reading with a touch of the button. makes for eazy record keeping !! press the button twice and get duplicates to leave one with the customer and one for you own records (please disreguard if pro-125 comes with it standard).



Murph' (SOS)

Rudy

Wrong E-Mail address

Joel, Check your e-mail posting, you used my e-mail
address.
Thanks Tom DeBrum,

tdebrum@comcast.com

Rocky

Joel, I have two

Fyrite Pro 125's. Lots of other servicemen here in Fairbanks use them as well. What I've found is that if not treated properly, they will fail. Make sure you disconnect the hoses from the **** end of the Fyrite after each use to reduce any condensate from running into the sensors. Make sure the yarn or foam in-line filters are kept really clean. One teeny-tiny speck of soot on the oxygen sensor will kill it. trust me. Do not let them get cold. Purge them for longer than just the few seconds the machine gives you on shut down. Get rid of all the CO containing gases in the line before you shut them down. Really handy tools as you can make real-time adjustments and see the results. However, be prepared to spend a couple hundred dollars per year per machine. Good luck,
Rocky

Mark Hunt

Bacharach gets my vote


HANDS DOWN!

THE MOST VALUABLE TOOL I OWN!

I test EVERYTHING and the Fyrite's have never let me down.

I need to get mine serviced more often, but that's because I use them more often.

The folks at Bacharach have a commitment to our industry and our customers.

Go with the Bacharach units.

Mark H

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

tim smith_2

analyzers

I see all the posts regarding fyrite testers, but none about Testo. There was quite a bit of buzz on Testo here a while ago. Why has that went away. I know for me that service has been a problem with all the mfrs over the years. I think I have tried multiples of all the mfrs but now I am thinking of going back to Bacharach if they have there service together from years ago with the first Fyrites. What do ya all think?

rudy_2

Just do it!!

So Tim, ya just had to bring up the ol Bacharach vs Testo debate, jeeze, I knew this would happen eventually!!!

You are right, service is a big concern for all the manufacturers..... Problem is that it’s a feast or famine business (alot like the heating business), naturally everybody waits till fall to send instruments in for calibration/repairs and the service centers can’t afford to hire folks year around to handle the fall rush. I even refer customers to a private service/repair center in Akron, Ohio I’ve had real good luck with.

One feature I like about the Fyrite Pros is that they are very easy to calibrate and replace the sensors yourself - I put the procedure up on the www.bacharach-training.com web page. When I got my first electronic in the mid 80’s (a Model 300) I also got a cal kit and never once sent it in for calibration/service. Replaced sensors, the t-couple a couple of times and learned how to clean and rebuild the pump (after one of the customer service folks walked me through it). Not to mention the fact that the 300 cost three times as much as the handhelds now and, at the time, didn’t have printing capabilities and was 120v only – a real pain on a roof top service call.

There were a few ‘issues’ when the Pro’s first came out but I’m confident all the bugs have been worked out now. They have eliminated the internal filter (that plugged up pretty easily when oil smoke was pulled through) by upgrading the external filter/moisture trap and are using a stronger internal pump. They also ‘tweaked’ the point at which the ‘low bat’ light comes on and changed the case design so you have to disconnect the probe and hose assembly – leaving the hose attached in the case seemed like a good idea at the time but didn’t allow the instrument to dry out between use and was causing premature sensor failure.

Like Rocky said, you do need to properly feed and take care of them - certainly more than the old shaker bottles. But the advantages of using an electronic instrument definitely outweigh any increase in cost and care. The shakers don’t measure CO and nobody’s ‘mechanical’ draft gauge can be used for measuring a positive overfire pressure, external static or gas pressure. Plus, the shakers are like taking 18 'black and white snapshots' of the combustion process and averaging them together, the electronics give you real time, immediate feedback in 'full color video'.

The bottom line though is, regardless of whose electronic instrument you invest in, just do it, you won’t ever look back!! I’ve still got the shaker I picked up in 79 but can’t even imagine using it - I’d feel like a one legged man in a butt kicking contest!!

edjr

re:fyrerite pro analyzer

the bacharach web site says the fyrerite pro is for residential uses

has any one used these on larger commercial boilers with powerburners

they reccommend the more expensive analyzers for commercial
use,which can measure nox levels

is there any reason you couldn't use the fyrerite pro on larger burners

any information would be appreciated

rudy_2

Pro use for commercial equipment

The Pro cannot be upgraded to measure NOX, if that's not an issue, the only other concerns using it for commercial burner tuneups are that the 'commercial' grade analyzers (PCA and ECA 450) have stronger pumps so you can pull flue gases through a 20' probe and hose assembly.

If you are doing alot of powerburner setups, you might want to consider the PCA, it will save you alot of time running back and forth on rear breach equipment.

True commercial grade analyzers (like the PCA and 450) also have a hydrogen compensated CO sensor. Powerburners run with much higher flame temps which can result in hydrogen production which the 'non compensated CO sensors' are cross sensitive to.

The couple of times I've compaired CO readings on a PCA vs a Pro while testing a powerburner, I found CO readings 10 to 75 ppm readings higher on the Pro due to it reading hydrogen as CO.

The other issue to keep in mind if NOX measurement is necessary, analyzers (like the PCA) that measure NOX (as opposed to NO and NO2 separately) really only have a NO sensor and calculate a NOX reading based on a long accepted 'rule of thumb' - which was recently proven to be just that - a rule of thumb....

If you need to meet compliance standards, you need to look at an instrument that has both NO and NO2 sensors, like the ECA 450.

If you have questions about what would fit your needs, please feel free to get in touch, I'd look forward to talking with you.