modulating steam boilers

john_27

I have seen several posts (Steamhead, Mike T., and Noel)on this site discussing the genius of vapor systems.....why can't we recreate the effect of coal fired vacuum using modulating boilers, and as Mike said, condensing one's as well.....I think we could create a little Steam History here, and do the work of Weil and Burnham for them if they don't care to do it themselves.....I have an existing veco system....we can change the vents to vacuum...don't know if mods can handle 1.8mm btu's
but I think it is a good idea worth pursuing...makes these old houses easier to own for folks, and advances the art and science of vapor technology....anyone care to try?

Unknown

The numbers aren't there

The boilers sold would need to pay for getting it tested, listed, and approved.

How many do you think we could sell? What price would people pay for one?

Noel

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Even an experiment would be really hard.

To make the system produce "vapor" (steam at lower than normal temperature) it first has to be "primed" with normal steam to drive out the air.

Then you have to come up with some sort of feedback mechanism to keep the water in the boiler at a temperature suitable to produce vapor at the sub-atmospheric pressure required by the ever changing state of the system. I think you'd need something synonomous to a throttle on a carburetor on "cruise control" to modulate the boiler--literally an analog mechanical, vacuum-driven adjustment. Present-day condensing boilers are anything BUT analog and mechanical.

Mark Eatherton1

It's already here...

"nearly infinite modulation"

http://www.gasmaster-ind.com/home.html

Sounds do-able to me? Hope moneys not a concern, because any time you're talking high efficiency, your talking BIG BUCK$.

ME

Boilerpro_3

I believe both have and are being done

Someone here posted a pic of a nice condsensing steam boiler in the past year or so. I believe there has also been some talk of modulating gas valves used on steamers here... It may have been Timmie.

Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

Ah there it is.... NM

steve_6

I was told

by an old time steam fitter in our area that Bryant came out with a modulating gas valve maybe in the late 1940's to mimick the coal fire modulation it was replacing.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Aaaak!

"Throttle?"

Sounds mechanical. Wonder if it could be set up to operate off of a vacuum diaphragm valve?

Isn't that what you would need for a vapor system?

Believe it or not I don't research boiler design and the most "modern" boiler I've observed on the inside is my 1970s Weil-McLain.

I had a "flash" years ago while staring at a kerosene heater and really don't want to cloud the vision with current designs. The Vitodens radiant burner is pretty close to what I saw...

Mark:

A while back you said, "Someone give this man a job."

How would you suggest I proceed when my resum

Unknown

Some of the old gas actuated boilers

had the ability to throttle gas flow. The valves used a controlled bleed from the gas valve. Then there was the Detroit Lubricator valves which eventually became American Standard. The Detroit valves had a heater element built into the valve some of them had a senseing control that was into the steam or gravity hot water boilers.

There was also a Bryant conversion burner that had a throttling valve.

Last of all was the Republic Gyroscopic Conversion burner which had Low thru high fire control.

We have been using modulating gas valves on space heating for years. Those would modulate based on room temperature using a capillary type hydraulic control.

A lot of industrial burners have modulating controls.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Aaaak!

"Throttle?"

Sounds mechanical. Wonder if it could be set up to operate off of a vacuum diaphragm valve?

Isn't that what you would need for a vapor system?

Believe it or not I don't research boiler design and the most "modern" boiler I've observed on the inside is my 1970s Weil-McLain.

I had a "flash" years ago while staring at a kerosene heater and really don't want to cloud the vision with current designs. The Vitodens was really close but not quite the same...

Mark:

A while back you said, "Someone give this man a job."

How would you suggest I proceed when my resum

Unknown

I've done it, but only for a specific job.

Honeywell makes a pressuretrol that controls a modulating gas valve (big stuff) that has a motor that operates an air gate along with the gas valve.

Power Flame J burners use this gas valve with a HI/LO fire operator, rather than a modulating motor.

It sure was a slick thing, but it took a lot of adjusting to get it to run without CO at all parts of the throttle range. Low fire was the worse.

It never was tested or listed for anyone to manufacture.

Go here and accept, then type in L91B

http://hbctechlit.honeywell.com/

Noel

Mad Dog

Very interesting......Wish I had time to tinker

with a project like that. Maybe when the house is done, Noel, Steamhead, Ron, me a & Dan can build one in my barn. Steam Dreams.....my wife already wants to kill me!!!!Mad Dog

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