Home Depot Special???

Richard D._2

Went to a call for a water leak.from a pipe.Steam Boiler... Cust. Installed a relief valev from the depot!He asked for a relief valve fora steam boiler,or so he said and installed it..A Watts 374A ...374A is now Multi use??? lol... on a STEAM Boiler!!!
Glad boiler was not running!!!Told the cust. the prob..Gladly paid me but was not to happy with the salesman who soldhim the valve,,mmmm...wonder how the Salesman made out :(..Glad I have a happy cust.. Richard

Steamhead

Unfortunately

we see that too frequently. That's why we must always check the relief to see if it's right for the job!

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Ken C.

I'm curious ... Let's say you went to a customer's house for a service call that had nothing to do with the pressue relief valve, but you just happened to glance at it and noticed that it was the incorrect one. You mention to the customer that it should be changed because it is a very important safety device. But, the customer refuses to spend the money for you to change it (and we all know that some people will risk their own safety in pursuit of saving a buck). What would you do at that point to cover yourself from a potential liability issue? Would you shut the boiler down, or leave it as-is, but note it on your service invoice?
Ken

Dave Yates (PAH)

we

would shut it down and ask for them to sign off that we'd done so.

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Richard D._2

GREAT Question

for the coast of the relief valve change it and worry about the bill later...We have major liabilty issues w/you shut a boiler off in winter in Maine...In warm weather I would call our local fire marshall ,explaine problem ,they have the LEGAL right to shut the system down..Same for safty issues in winter that are not a cheap fix but a safty hazard....What does anyone else have to say... GREAT QUESTION"!!!!! THANKS Richard

jim lockard

The

Salemans most likly doing fine his manager is probley clueless about the danger.

Richard D._2

HEY Dave

Do you have a liabilty issue when you do a sigh off??It is a fine line in court,as you know the customer says I didn't know that!!! That's why we call the fire marshall here,the sign off is also a good idea..We Have a VIOLATION FORM we have them sign for issue as well..But we like to Cover our a#%!!!A FORMAL type of safty sign off would be nice..MMMMMM What did we start :)Thanks another great question!!"Using the wall makes me look smart at work" :0..Thanks everyone and happy hoildays..Have they ask this questionbefor?? Richard D.

heatboy

Enjoy these tidbits.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home_depot.htm

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/press/depot.htm

http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/h/homedepot_toc.htm

hb

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Greg Swob

Liability is the issue.

When an employee of a company knows a problem exists, then it is considered that the company knows. Allowing an unsafe condition to exist is a liability issue. Even with a warning to the customer this becomes a fine line. Depending upon severity of the problem, we would either shut down the system & 'Red Tag' it or give the customer a time frame to repair, then tag it if not repaired within the time period. Greg

Dave Yates (PAH)

never

had a HO refuse the repairs when confronted by our refusal to turn back on the equipment or sign a statement regarding why we won't turn it back on. Although I can't force them to do what's right, I gotta CYA (cover your assets).

I have a copy of the Watts video - "Danger Lurks", which should be a must-see before anyone is allowed to buy or install any relief valves! We recently completed a new updated version of the film for them (25 minute documentary) that incorporates things like thermal expansion, scald-guard protection and system-wide Legionella prevention. Release hinges on what the code bodies resolve regarding ASSE 1017 & 1016 valves & storage temperatures for water heaters.

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Mark Eatherton1

Gonna have to change your name...

to Hollywod Yates. I thought about you the other day on something with a video bent. If I remember what it was, I'll contact you:-) Or maybe I'll have my agent call your agent...

I look forward to the release.

ME

Unknown

Dave I have the old \"Danger Lurks\"

how to I go about getting the new one is it on the market yet?

Unknown

The greatest liability is to leave

something on that is unsafe. My rule is to make it inoperative. Having been in many court cases as an expert witness on gas equipment the issue of what is considered safely shutting off equipment has come up often. In every case the judge ruled that in order to be safely shut off the source of fuel, gas or oil, had to be disconnected and capped off. This has been the case both with gas and with oil. Just shutting off a valve or switch is not considered by the courts to be safe.

In my experience it is how you explain to a customer the issue of safety. If they are given a good explanation they are usually okay with shutting off equipment. Many times we would loan them some electric space heaters until repairs could be made.

Mark Hunt

Often wondered about this


I can call a utility to shut off equipment that I determine is unsafe for operation, but oil and LP companies do not operate the same way.

Most folks will not argue when you explain the situation, but some do. In some cases you just know they are going to call someone to turn it back on.

Tough call.

Mark H

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Greg Swob

LPG business has undergone some changes due to liability

in our area recently. A house fire which could have been prevented by the LPG supplier performing leak checks has brought a whole new sudden appreciation for codes. The home had been vacant for over two years, new occupants ordered the tank filled. A spark possibly from light switch burned 3 family members, one severely. The LPG firm stands to more than likely lose a seven figure law suit over this fire and for the moment, their liability insurance was suspended. This incident made other area suppliers stand up and take notice. No longer are they just filling the tank and driving off. A thorough inspection is being made on all new deliveries and those with any safety issues are refused service until repairs are made. Too bad it seems to always take death or injury to bring what should be common practice to light- like CO testing on every service call. Here in Kansas anyway, it seems the suppliers are held responsible not only for the tank and regulator, but for all piping to and including the appliance gas valve.

As for on-site safety repairs, it is rare we have a customer refuse. Those refusing are mainly entities with maintenance staff and some landlords whom we do not perform service work for. In the case of rental properties, we obviously need permission of the owners (virtually always granted) prior to performing repair service.

We have a good fall preseason service program, but too few people take advantage of it. Greg

Mark Hunt

Hope that it spreads here


Here in NY, LP companies are not responsible for ANYTHING inside the home.

They do a "leak test" when they hook up the tank, but they do not look at anything else.

You are right about it taking a death or two before something gets noticed.

Mark H

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Dave Yates (PAH)

horton hatches a who

They're waiting till the storage temp issue hatches(G).

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Mad Dog

As uncomfortable and contentious as it may get.......

I have closed off the gas cock and pulled wires apart to render the time bomb useless. It depends how dangerous the situation is. Most folks if you really hammer home the point and tell them bluntly will fix it on the spot or at least sign off that they were warned. If they don't then I will render it inoperable. I've had to do it twice over the years and got into a brief wrestling match with the landlord as he tried to stop me - wasn't pretty. The boiler was blocked and spilling CO big time in to the room, but he said he would just open the windows in the basement..........jerk Mad dog

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Unknown

Make it easy....

make it inoperative and then advise the customer. Do not do it up front as you then have to go through the process with them screaming at you. Much easier to have done it, tell them, give instructions as to what has to be done and leave.

Dale

Do something

We have an excess coverage insurance company come for training and audits every few years. They review "areas of concern" which means cases where they had to pay claims. The message from them is to "do something" if made aware of any safety concern. The example was a customer calling to say smoke came out of the outlet everytime they plugged in the iron. The answer only needed to be "Don't plug the iron into that outlet and call an electrician" which a reasonable person on a jury probably would have accepted. So, do something reasonable and document it somehow.

JC

relief valves

Just thought you guys would to know that it's not just the amateurs who would do something like this but that there are trained professionals doing it also. I was standing at the counter of a supply house one day and heard someone ask for a 125 lb. 3/4" relief valve. It seems that he was having trouble keeping the relief valve in an old 3 story Victorian home from leaking water on the floor. His solution was going to be raise the pressure and install the new valve. I asked facetiously if it wouldn't be easier to just plug the valve that was there. He just laughed and said the discussion was not up for debate and he wanted his valve. The supply house only had a 75 lb. valve and that was the one he left with. Scary huh???