Snowmelt leak

John MacGregor_3

We have a six year old snowmelt system installed at a building with the boiler on the roof and the piping dropping thru a closet to a distribution box just outside.
There has been a lot of landscaping done over the years, including planting a tree over the distribution box.
I expect we will have to dig up the tree and get into the box, refill the system and look for bubbles to come back on the return side. Once that is done, we will have to locate the source of our leak.
My question is, does anyone have any idea how to locate this leak without tearing up the entire landscape? This a 2,000 sq ft, 10(?)loop job. Would you wait 'til it snows again and run just the bubbly loop and see where it melts fastest? Or is there another way, maybe blowing nitrogen thru it and see where the pavers float up in the air?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Happy New Year
John Mac

hr

A couple methods

that my Leakbuster guy uses are. Inert gas with a snifer, but this would be tricky outside I suppose.

Or he injects water from a hose with nitrogen through a venturi fitting. This causes a loud bubbling sound at the leak. Then he listens for leaks with a high tech headset device. this has been the most sucessful method used for me. Again, outside with traffic noise would make this more difficult.

Or try 100 psi air, ONLY if the tube and fittings are rated for this pressure. For sure disconnect the boiler from the loop with this method.

Of course all of these methods would cause you to lose or flush the glycol out first.

hot rod

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Kal Row

wouldnt it be nice...

if they sold an inexpensive makeup water usage indicator
with a mecanical flag or alarm contacts, that trip when
you use more than a normal amount, so that you can
quickly know when you spring a radiant leak!!!

jim lockard

Nitrogen ?

John I feel your pain, do not know about nitrogen with enough pressure to push up the pavers. I would be more inclined to start a little less radical perhaps hook up the air compressor, and start listening with a steathascope or run H2O across the drive looking for bubbles. If you can isolate the loop maybe you favorite flavor of food coloring mixed with H2O and little air behind it.Or wait til summer pump weed-B-gone thru the loop and find the cleanest part of the garden. J. Lockard

hr

They do, Kal

sort of Most LWC's have alarm contacts. I use this tiny, accurate water meter assembly when I suspect a leak. I use wash machine hoses to connect it to the system.

I feel any radiant system should not be left with the fill valve on, after the initial fill and purge. I'll bet there are plenty of systems out there with small leaks constantly taking on fresh water.

A LWC or pressure switch would be a good way for the owner to know they have a leak.

Confirm it with a water meter, then the search begins!

hot rod

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jim lockard

So HR

If I was to place a pressure switch in the system that was to make or break at say 10 psi fill the systm to12/15 psi I would know I had a leak before my LWCO turned off the system very cool. J. Lockard

Mark Eatherton1

My $0.02 worth...

Can be found at the following links.

http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=140

http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=132

http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=129

Let me know if you have any additional questions.

ME

Steve Whitbeck

On snowmelt systems I ONLY use a 15 gallon asme compression tank with a sight glass and NO water make up at all.

Kal Row

good idea...

especially since i put my low water cutoff at the
high point in the boiler room manifold piping right
right under an auto air purge to protect the wet rotor
pumps as well as the boiler, so shutting the fresh water
supply will work for me!! - thanks

John MacGregor_3

Snowmelt leak

Thanks for your help, guys.

I will try some of your ideas. Some we have used in the past, but this is the first problem with snow melt buried under new landscaping which can make for a lot of destruction.

Several notes on the answers I recieved;
1) We always install LWCOs Above the crown sheet, and L6006C aquastats on the outlet side of the boilers.

2) We always install propylene glycol(No-Burst) in snow melt systems and 90+% of residential systems. What would we do on a -27* night with a power failure, otherwise?

3) We never leave water connected to an anti-freeze protected system. We have replaced enough of those systems (installed by others)to know better than to think there will never be a leak in the system allowing the antifreeze to be diluted to useless and destroy the heating, plumbing, and much of the rest of a home.

Hot Rod, say Hello to your lovely bride, Ellen, I haven't seen her since you folks left C2000, but I do read her columns and pass them on to my daughter, who is gradually taking over for me.

John MacGregor

John MacGregor_3

Snowmelt leak

Thanks for your help, guys.

I will try some of your ideas. Some we have used in the past, but this is the first problem with snow melt buried under new landscaping which can make for a lot of destruction.

Several notes on the answers I recieved;

1) We always install LWCOs Above the crown sheet, and L6006C aquastats on the outlet side of the boilers.

2) We always install propylene glycol(No-Burst) in snow melt systems and 90+% of residential systems. What would we do on a -27* night with a power failure, otherwise?

3) We never leave water connected to an anti-freeze protected system. We have replaced enough of those systems (installed by others)to know better than to think there will never be a leak in the system allowing the antifreeze to be diluted to useless and destroy the heating, plumbing, and much of the rest of a home.

Hot Rod, say Hello to your lovely bride, Ellen, I haven't seen her since you folks left C2000, but I do read her columns and pass them on to my daughter, who is gradually taking over for me.

John MacGregor

hr

Thanks John

Ellen said hi back at ya!

Sounds like you have a fun one to troubleshoot. Outdoor leaks are a challange. See if you have a www.leakbuster.com franchise near you. They have lots of leak detecting goodies and know how to use them.

My leakbuster guy has sucessfully found leaks in concrete driveway snowmelts. Every time I use him he pinpoints a leak to within a couple inches. Not bad.

He also works for many of the water companies and finds leaks 4 feet deep, in mains!

Other than that you may be on a search and destroy misson regarding the landscaping Good luck

hot rod

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