Tubing Repacement

mph

I am about to start a job where we will have to replace all of the polybutalene water piping in a house. There have been numerous places where rats have chewed through the poly and caused substantial water damage. There have also been failures on the hot water recirc lines from tubing degradation.

I would like to use Pex for the replacement, but the owner is concerned that the rats may like it just as much as the poly. Any experience with this?

The owner is also wondering if he needs to worry about the radiant tubing failing, as well. It is the black rubber, aprox 1/4" ID twin-tube. I believe it was called "Radiant Roll". It was installed about 20 years ago. Has anybody seen any failures with this product?

Any info you may have would be most appreciated.

Jeff

Mark Eatherton1

Sounds like...

he needs a good contract with Orkin, and some good rodent proofing around his dwelling.

Rodents will chew through ANY of the plastic tubings, including PAP.

As for Solar ROll, yes, I've seen it fail, and I've also seen it last for 20+ years with no signs of degradation too.

Ya just never know with that rubber stuff...

ME

hr

Check and see

I'm not sure any pex is listed for continous recirc of DHW. Also make sure the pex you chose has the chlorine standard acceptence.

That rubber (EPDM) sounds like solar roll. It is very prone to tears when installed in a slab that has shifted or settled. It is also a non barrier and does suck O2. The higher temperature staple up jobs present more pump corossion than the slab installs running lower temperatures, in my experience!

The key to that system, should you proceed, is to have a way to monitor make up water. Either disconnect the system from an automatic fill system and use LWC protection. Or add a small water meter to the fill system. Not all homeowners are able to know when the have a radiant leak.

Constant make up water will greatly shorten the life of boilers, pumps. and other non ferrous components.

Not to mention excessive fuel bills related to leaking radiant systems Nothing like pumping hot water into the ground for an energy waster!

I think any non barrier tube job should be all non ferrous, Pumps, boilers, purgers, etc. Or seperate the ferrous components with a HX.

Not a great candidate for chemical corossion protection, either, unless you are religous about monitoring for the rest of your, or the system, life

Repeat after me "No warranty, written or implied, when dealing with old technology non barrier tube." Regardless of the brand or material. Make sure you and the homeowner agree on that concept

hot rod

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mph

About the only thing that was done correctly on this system is that they did use a HX for separation. Well, that and the Viessmann Vitola Biferal and Verticell WH that were installed about five years ago.

There is a bunch of carpeting that has to be replaced and the HO is considering abandoning the existing in-floor and replacing it with Quiktrac or some equivalent system on top of the slab. This is the second time he's had a major flood (from the poly) and he now wants to be proactive and do what ever is necessary to prevent a reoccurance next year. There has been one leak in the EPDM in the past. He says if there's the smallest chance the heating system may fail in the next few years, now is the time to replace it. I have plenty of other jobs to do so this isn't a make work project for me, but I don't want the guy pissed off at me two years from now when we have to tear up his new carpet to fix a leak in the EPDM.

Jeff