what to do with old radiators

Erik Meade

O.K. Please do not make me feel any worse than I already do. I added forced air ground source heat pump to a 1930's house that I bought this summer. It was already ducted for air but needed a new unit. I live in southern Illinois and looked hard to find anyone knew diddly squat about the two pipe steam system in my house. (At least a couple of the professionals were honest enough to look at the collection of pipes and contraptions connected to the relatively new boiler and say "I haven't the foggiest idea what all this stuff is") A couple of radiators were leaking and damaging the plaster. So I figured I will get a heat pump instead of an air conditioner, that way I will be able to have some heat until I could make sense of the steam system.

Then my well meaning father-in-law (thinking had no need for the old radiators, and pipes) started hacking away with the sawzall, one day when I was gone. So now I have given up on the old system and was just wondering if any parts have salvage value, or if I should just make scrap metal?

I am also wondering if there is any good way to cut through three inch steel pipe, (My father-in-law went through about $40 worth of sawzall blades)


The boiler was made in 1978

There a couple of "regular" stand up radiators.

a lot of the "regular" radiators were replaces with cast iron baseboard radiators (these are about 18inch long sections connected together with some kind of press fitting. A few of these sections leaked, but most did not)

A bunch of big pipe

Duncan_9

How DARE you???

We will only help you if you tell us your father-in-law's address, and what kind of car he drives.

Just kidding... Is this a bogus post?

Steamhead

I would consider that grounds for divorce

How far did he get with the sawzall before you stopped him?

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Steve Whitbeck

removal of pipes

If you really want to remove the pipes.
You can easilly remove them by breaking the fittings not by cutting the pipes.
Get a 10 lbs or larger sledge hammer and a short handled 2 lbs sledge.
Hold the 10 lbs sledge BEHIND the fitting to be broken then hit the front side with the smaller sledge.
IF you do it right it will only take a few hits and it will fall apart.
I removed all the pipes in a large basement in about 1 hour. ( droped to the floor that is )

Erik Meade

Duncan,

Why would you think this is a "bogus post"?


Steamhead,

He cut out all the radiators. The ones on the second floor he used a pipe wrench and unscrewed the remaining pipe so now there is no easy way to reconnect. without either cutting the ceiling below or the hardwood floors.

The others he cut the stubs off from the basement.

He also cut some misc. pipes in the basement. Some of the three inch ones, and just a couple of the smaller ones.

Why, do you think that it can be repaired?

Part of the reason I bought the heat pump is that the previous owners said that they could never get comfortable in the spring and fall. I am in southern Illinois (closer to Memphis than Chicago) we can have pretty mild weather in the spring and fall. So my plan was to use the heat pump during this time, then the steam when the cold set in. Everyone told me that this steam heat is very comfortable.


Was this a bad idea?

Anyway (with the guarantees offered by the electric co. the geo-thermal will just about pay for itself in air-condition savings)

Steamhead

Easier than you think to fix it

To reconnect the radiators, just measure the required length and install new pipe nipples of proper size and length. As long as the pipe fittings are accessible thru the holes in the floor, this is easy to do. I recently did this on an old hot-water system that we almost lost to the heat-pump pushers.

The 3" piping might require cutting, threading and installing unions, but it can be done.

Steam heat, especially the 2-pipe variety, is easily controlled in mild weather if set up properly. I think you may have a Vapor system, are there traps or shutoff valves on the radiator return connections? And what are those "contraptions" in the basement near the boiler? Do they have any identifying information on them? Take pics and post them if you can.

If you need someone to go over it with you, get in touch with Dave "Boilerpro" Bunnell. He's up in Amboy (closer to you than Baltimore which is where I am), but I'm sure he would consider riding south for a consulting job.



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Mark Eatherton1

Make sure...

the fittings are made of cast iron and not steel. Caught my guys mangling an iron elbow, AND themsleves the other day. There's a time and place for a sawzall. And this was it.

$40 for saw blades is a lot. I wonder if that was an old mallable iron system. That'd be a shame...

Using a hammer for removing pipe is akin to doing surgery with a jack hammer. There are usually side casualties involved. I almost took a mans eye out once with an errant cast iron flange, and he HAD safety glasses on!!

Be careful out there men. It's a jungle out there.

ME

Duncan_9

Erik...

What did you say your father-in-law's address is?

Sorry, it just seemed too over the top: A "well-meaning" father-in-law waits for you to leave to demo your home???

Heat pump in Illinois? It just seemed like you were trying to push every button a steam lover has to see steam come out his ears. Lotsa steam on this site.

I'll shut up now, since I don't know anything about steam heat. I take it back, you sound real enough, you're here now.

Steamhead and others will show you the path to redemption. After they wipe off their monitor screens.

Duncan_9

Erik...

What did you say your father-in-law's address is?

Sorry, it just seemed too over the top: A "well-meaning" father-in-law demos your home when you leave??? Someone had to take a poke to see if it was real.

Heat pump in Illinois? It just seemed like you were trying to push every button a steam lover has, just to see steam come out his ears.

That's why... I'll humbly shut up now, and watch with interest since I don't know much about steam heat. I take it back, you sound real enough, you're here now. Good for you, trying to make it work, that's a lot of great old equipment to simply abandon.

Steamhead and others will show you the path to redemption. After they're done wiping off their monitor screens.

Erik Meade

Here are some pictures

I can post more if you tell me what would be helpful. Thank you for your help, I live one hour from St. Louis.

And go easy on my Father-In-Law he is retired and was very helpful getting this house together before he went to Florida for the winter. I had a list of projects that needed done, and he sometimes came and worked on them while I was off teaching. One of them was to "remove radiators" - I was going to take them out to refinish the floors. he thought I was done with them.

Mad Dog

a penny a pound is what you'll get

unl;ess they are ornate. mad Dog

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bob young

prices are skyrocketing. we used to get fifty cents for a hundred pounds over 30 years ago. cost ya more in sawzall blades.

Steamhead

It's Vapor- Restore It!

The two devices in the return piping are pretty common. I think they may have been made by Hoffman, but am not sure. The rectangular one nearest the boiler is a Return Trap, which has the job of making sure the water gets back to the boiler if the pressure gets too high for it to return by gravity.

The other one is a Float Trap/Air Eliminator, which allows air coming thru the dry (overhead) return to get out of the system, but closes if water rises into it. This is why there are no vents on the radiators. All the air is vented from one point.

This type of system is covered in chapter 15 of Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating" available on the Books and More page of this site. It is the best book on steam I've ever seen.

Vapor was the Cadillac of heating in its day, and is still one of the best systems out there now. Don't listen to the heat-pump pushers when they say to rip it out. Get Dan's book and read it, then restore this beauty! You'll be glad you did.

The boiler looks like a 400 series Burnham- a very well-made unit. Glenn Stanton can answer any questions you may have about it.

How about posting pics of some radiators and their associated hardware, also are there any vents or traps at the end of the steam supply mains?



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