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Having an audience while you work
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Ken C.
Member Posts: 267
I'm curious what other pros think about homeowners who look over your shoulder while you work. My feelings on this vary greatly, depending on the situation and the homeowner. If I'm doing a simple plumbing call, I don't mind being watched as much. But if I'm on a heating call, it bothers me very much, probably due to the fact that I have much less heating experience than plumbing experience. Also, it depends on the homeowner. Elderly widows who are just lonely and want someone to talk to, I don't have a problem with. I also don't mind homeowners who are genuinely interested in how their system works and is maintained. The types of homeowners that bother me include those who watch tradesmen like a hawk, like they think you are going to rip them off or something. Also, ones who crowd you so close that you constantly have to dodge them or ask them to move. You think they'd get the hint after the second or third time. Finally, there are the ones who ask a million questions when you're in the middle of something that requires intense exertion or concentration, and then they try to question or argue with your answers. Anyway, feel free to share any stories about annoying customers. In case anyone misconstrues this thread, I'm not trying to get into a homeowner-bashing mode (indeed, there are lots of great customers out there). I'm simply curious how other tradesmen deal with these types of situations.
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Comments
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well, i'm a talker,
so i actually enjoy it when the customer hangs out..i dont talk about politics or stuff tho, i talk about their plumbing,heating, that i'm working on..i'll talk about ancient roman plumbing and the like...i also dont have a problem with putting them to work if they're hanging out..as one of my old bosses used to call it- customer participation time..a lot of customers really are interested and appreciate the fact that i will explain things to them..it just builds up the rapore with the customer..when i was first learning it imtimidated me, but then as the years went by, i got comfortable with myself and my knowledge and now i get lonely without the customer to talk to..its come in real handy to have the customer standing right there, for instance- is it better to come upstairs and announce, well ma'am the pipe just broke, or to be talking with the customer, shoot him/her a sideways glance and say, so, what do you think the chances are of that pipe actually unscrewing verse breaking?..then when it breaks cause it always does, they were already mentally prepared for it..0 -
i once had to work on a school system that was threatening to close the building. there were no windows, the old absorption chiller was down, and it was about 95 outside. about ten minutes after arrival, i was informed that i was going to be videotaped by two local news crews. it was right then that i politely put away my tools and threatened to leave the site. i informed the powers that i dont work under a camera, due to company policy, and that they needed to get someone else. the news crews were quickly escorted out as were most of the staff. then i went about my business. i didnt want anything taped because it was immediately evident what the problem was, and i didnt want the crews taping me beating open a condenser valve that was stuck, due to lack of funding to repair.0 -
When I was
younger it bothered me. Like Jerry said, I like to talk too. I love explaining systems to anyone willing to listen. It is easier to explain a problem when the customer is there to witness what you are faced with.
I am annoyed by the ones that have the lawn chair set up 2 feet from the burner. I have absolutely no patience with drunks. Especially when they try to help or tell you how to do your job. I was replacing an ignition transformer when the drunk turned the power on. The burner was a foot from the wall. I got shocked plus I smashed my elbow on the cement wall. It hurts just thinking about it.0 -
customer watching
I tell them to pull up a chair!!I have no problems with cust watching me....but i know what you mean about elderly cust......0 -
The watcher
I very seldom have a problem with a HO or BO watching or asking questions. If I need to wade my way through some intense electrical or other stuff that requires some serious concentration I politely ask them to give me time to understand their particular problem. If they fail or refuse to give me my space I just remind them it is their dollar being spent and it will take me longer to arrive at a solution. That usually does it. If it gets real bad I excuse myself and take the information out to my vehicle under the guise of looking for a part.
IF a customer gets under foot I make it clear to them that if they get stepped on or hurt I will not be responsible. On more than one occasion I have suddenly stood up or moved knocking over the nosey party while being all apologetic - That always works as does letting them feel a little electric tickle when their fingers are where they shouldn't be. It is amazing how nervous most people are of Mr Spark.0 -
What about...
non-talkers? I once replaced an oil-fired water heater with the homeowner sitting in a fold-up chair 4 feet from me. I was there for 6 hours, and he never said a word. I tried over and over again to get him talking, but to no avail. He did NOTHING but watch me work. No TV, book, or magazine. I guess I was his entertainment for that day!0 -
did he speak english? (nm)
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If they bother you make them
a thermostat operator. That way they will stay upstairs most of the time.
I guess I like to have an audience so they usually do not bother me. They can be a distration however when you are into a difficult problem. Thats when I make them the t'stat operator.0 -
i love to use that one Tim..
dose two things, it gets them out from under foot and makes them feel like there helping me.0 -
now that I've stopped laughing
I've got to say, as a H.O. I try to give anyone working in my place some space to do what they need to do. I like to learn and see what is going on like most folks, but I know I wouldn't want to have someone scrutinize my work either. I think that anyone in the trades has to put up with extra "stuff" when working in someones home as opposed to new construction or in an industrial setting. How they deal with it without being rude has got to be a special skill.
For anyone like Bill Nye who has been in placed in an unsafe situation by some idiot, think about protecting yourself by utilizing Lockout/Tagout (as required by OSHA under 1910.147) I would imagine that most of the time you are in control of your situation, but when the possibility exists that you could be exposed to the "unexpected energization" of equipment, you or your employees would be well served by preventing the possibility of someone flipping a switch when you don't want them to.
Thanks to Dan and everyone who contributes to this really great forum.
Larry0 -
next time....
grabb their hand then the electrode.....they'll get a charge out of it and neer do it again.....
when I was I kid it was fun to do that with the electric cow fence....or for the really dumb city slickers you would just challenge them to a pi**ing contest to see if they could hit the fence :-)
As far as the watching goes, I never mind and often take the chance to try to educate the consumer as to what he can a cannot do with the equipment. If they get in the way, politely remind them that it is costing them money.....they will leave you like the plague.....0 -
B-4
Hear it said before here it is again----You got to be crazy--stone cold out of your mind to want to work in another man's house.
Somedays it takes more skill to work in the house then it does to work on the house. J.Lockard0 -
Having Fun
Old Mrs. Marcy had a list for us everytime we came for a service call. As soon as you enter the house(after the normal 10 min wait outside so she could lay out her bed sheet walkway through the living room)she would stop you.. Make you stand there for another 5 min, holding your 50# Kenndy tool box as she stood there reading her list of her do's and do not's like a second grade school teacher on the first day of class... The list always had the usual drain expantion tank, oil circulators , bleed radiators and check thermostat. As the bead of sweat poured off your brow and just before your arm pulled out of your socket you break "Can I PLEASE bring my tools down , in the basement?" Once down stairs she would hover around the basement pointing to every crusty valve or speck of dust. She had a oil service contract and tried to stretch it as far as she can.. "No sorry Mrs. Marcy the kitchen drain trap is not covered under your contract" She would go on and on until (Thank goodness) Mr. Marcy would come down to rescue , escorting Mrs. Marcy back upstairs so you can finish the job . Once done Mrs. Marcy ,of course scurries down the stairs for "The Inspection" . Having been through"The Inspection " before I squeeked by with a C- .
Well one day the Marcy's old Koven boiler rotted out at the coil plate. Bright and early we showed up at the Marcy's door step . To make a long morning short by 11:30am we had the new Utica Starfire level in place and we started to pipe it in. In the mean time Mr. Marcy gave strict orders to Mrs. Marcy "For crying out loud ,leave them alone so they can install the boiler " As the smoke cleared upstairs we got busy down stairs .
As we humming along from the corner of our eye we noticed Mrs. Marcy peering around the the basement doorway watching us . She would disappear for a moment but always return .Well John my partner on the job could not resist to have a little fun with Mrs. Marcy. He picked up a aquastat box open it up looked at it , scratched his head and said"Gee what the heck is this thing ? Let's just leave it out , I don't think we need it any way." We were holding our laughter in , going back and fourth with different parts for about 5 min. 15 min later I was summone to the phone and with Mrs. Marcy's burning stare I took the reciever and on the other end our boss " What are you guys doing to her "
Well as you suspect the inspection took a week or more with a dozen indpendent persons ,the salesmen ,my boss , the neighbor , the uncle , their priest .....
~ 0 -
Good one Timmie
Yeah I've put them to work too. It depends...if its good-natured I don't mind. In 18 years of doing this, i've walked out on 2 people that wouldn't stop questioning everything I did and my knowledge.: "are you sure you know what your doing? how long have you been doing this....I'm gonna call the shop for an older guy..." I finally packed the tools and left with them begging me to come back =- kept going. I once walked out of a call almost immediately: as we were heading up the stairs, the old lady started in: "how much is this gonna cost me???? We'll ma'am, I have to see it first, I said. "We'll ALL YOU GUYS ARE CROOKS ANYHOW!!!" I turned around, told her off and left. She was shocked and couldn't believe some of us value our integrity more than the almighty dollar. I'll bet she didn't say that to the next guy who came! Mad Dog
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Hoverers...
I think that's what Duncan W calls'em. They sit there and "hover" right behind you.
As an instructor, I'm used to hoverers. If I don't have an audience, I don't feel right. But then again, I'm confident in what I do. If I were outside of my comfort box (and have on occasion been) I will politley ask them to leave me to my peace so I can better understand their situation. If they refuse, I'll grab the manuals and head for my mobile office (truck cab).
I always flap my arms for maximum swing radius to let them know my boundarys. Don't want them to get hurt in case a wrench slips or something...
ME0 -
Yup...
he spoke perfect english when it came time to complain about the bill!0 -
An acquaintance of mine
used to have a little problem that a couple of 12-step programs have helped him lick. He even had a reputation for occasional substance abuse - it was no secret. One day, he and a helper were doing some repiping and the police were called in on them. It seems when they used sentences like "pass me the dope...", "where'd you put the can of dope?", etc. the homeowner just knew they were up to no good! They're both clean and sober now. It was pretty much mutual that they didn't work for her anymore. The only trick I've found is what Tim mentioned: T-stat duty for the H.O. Gets them involved and makes them feel like they helped fix it. Even if you disconnect the gas valve or other wiring so you can control the unit at the source, they still had a hand in the repair and leave you alone if only for a few moments. Greg0 -
Timmie,
It's the easiest and most proffesional way to get them "off your back" when things get tough. I have also used the old" Can you do me a favor and listen to the thermostat, tell me if you hear a clicking sound" trick. It makes them feel like part of the process and gets them out of the area for a tough troubleshooting session. (sucks when they think they heard something, but you can alway send them back and say, o.k., listen again)Chris0 -
Human hovercraft...
I came up with that while on a job with "the new guy".
He didn't know a lot about heating, but was eager to learn... Too eager. It was kinda like having two heads, he looked over your shoulder so closely. I don't remember how many times I stepped on his toes when I would take a step back. Gave me claustrophobia!
Your partner Tom and SideKick Rick couldn't handle him, so I got stuck driving back to the shop with the Human Hovercraft at the wheel. The drive was County road 126 south of Pine Junction; winding and steep dropoffs.
The Human Hovercraft had an odd way of negotiating turns... Instead of smoothly tracking the turn, he would turn with a series of small jerks of the wheel. Made me want to throw up. It was then I figured out that in real life, a curve has nothing to do with a radius, a curve is really a series of straight line segments.
If you want to crack Tom up, ask him if he believes a curve is a series of straight line segments.0 -
Only flipped out on one customer over the years.
> used to have a little problem that a couple of
> 12-step programs have helped him lick. He even
> had a reputation for occasional substance abuse -
> it was no secret. One day, he and a helper were
> doing some repiping and the police were called in
> on them. It seems when they used sentences like
> "pass me the dope...", "where'd you put the can
> of dope?", etc. the homeowner just knew they were
> up to no good! They're both clean and sober now.
> It was pretty much mutual that they didn't work
> for her anymore. The only trick I've found is
> what Tim mentioned: T-stat duty for the H.O.
> Gets them involved and makes them feel like they
> helped fix it. Even if you disconnect the gas
> valve or other wiring so you can control the unit
> at the source, they still had a hand in the
> repair and leave you alone if only for a few
> moments. Greg
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Only flipped out on one customer over the years.
I usually like the conversation with the customer. Was kind of shy when I first started out,like I was the intruder. But after years of being in other peoples' homes I can easily ask them to leave or I will. Had one place I worked at the customer was right there....also checking out my tool box. Well,he saw some things he needed to do things around his house and was walking away with my tools. Told him to put the stuff back. He thought that if he was paying me, that he also had use of my tools. Told him straight out that I didn't see it that way. He asked me how I saw it then. Said that here,in front of me I see the job that has to be done. Then said if I go to the window there, I'll see the truck that will take me home. He left after that.0 -
I'm a talker
and usually don't mind when they hang around, if they don't mind hearing my cornball stories and jokes. That's the price they pay. I have some trouble when it's a control problem and I need my concentration. At those points I have even sent my helper away to clean the truck so I can focus. Sometimes the attitude is what is distracting. Had a customer who had a know it all friend there, who was convinced I was creating work by moving an expansion tank location away from the positive side of the circ to the suction. He got my 15 minute speech on pumping away and point of no pressure change. I charged them for the time too. WW
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Depends on the watcher
Most are good company and often a fun experience for both. Problem childs I turn into errand boys, or girls, like Timmie does. Plenty of tasks to assign a problem "watcher"
hot rod
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BIG ED!!!!!!!!
That is the best!
God bless her heart!
LMAO!!!!!!!!
Mark H
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NON talkers!!
I had an old Texan set up a coffee table with a "Mr.Coffee" coffee maker on it not more than 4 feet from the boiler I was replacing. He sat there all day chain smoking Camel's and drinking pot after pot of coffee. HE NEVER SAID A WORD!!!!!!
I have NO problem with the HO watching me and asking questions, but JUST WATCHING me. AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Gives me the willies!!!
Mark H
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Their nickle their option
Can't see why not unless they are hammering you about price,etc. I enjoy interacting with customers. Most older people love to have someone to talk to>
MP19690 -
Their nickle their option
Can't see why not unless they are hammering you about price,etc. I enjoy interacting with customers. Most older people love to have someone to talk to>
MP19690 -
drunk customers
i just changed a boiler for a drunk guy who wouldn't get out of my way, so I kept calling his ph.# with my cell ph.and hanging up. he constantly went upstairs then finally stayed there. i laughed my **** off. bobTo learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.0 -
We get the peekaboos alot
And for the most part , I enjoy having them watch what we do .
The only time I don't like them watching is when we are moving the new boiler in or the old one out . With the extra set of eyes on me sometimes I get distracted and gouge a wall or hit a door maneuvering the equipment .
By the way , worst case scenerio - what could happen if the homeowner got hurt by being too close to the work area ? Can he sue the company ?0 -
The strangest part...
was when I ran into this NON-TALKER at a town fair. He approached me and my family and chatted it up like we were old friends!0 -
Hrumphf...
just goes to show ya...
ME0 -
Hot breath
I take it situation at a time. Some are good - some are bad. The worst is when you're working and suddenly feel the guy's arm on your shoulder and his hot breath on your neck as he tries to crawl into your workspace.0 -
Yeah if you're trying troubleshoot an electrical problem
it is very distracting. I was on a call a few months ago, and the ho was "invading my space" and trying to tell me what was really wrong (bad vent damper). After a full five minutes I said: "look! I'm going to figure this out, but you really have to give me some space...I'll let you know when I have an answer.." I said it nicely and he took the hint. I soon found out is was the rollout switch. I used to be very uncomfortable putting people in their place, but its all in the way you say it. The guy was cool after that and happy he didn't need the more expensive vent damper. Mad Dog
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Regardless of what the rationale is ........
it usually comes down to them not knowing you and afraid of getting screwed. I can tell you this - even those nice old ladies & gents don't find the work or conversation that interesting once you become their regular plumber/heat guy. Most Repeat customers will chit chat on the way in and a little on the way out, but once they trust you, only the really lonely ones will hover the whole time you are there. I love talking to people too - especially the old timers, but sometimes you have to ask them to back off. The ones who really annoy me are parents who let young kids hang around while you are doing dangerous things, like threading pipe or soldering. I'll be nice the first time, but will walk the kid back to mom or dad, and be blunt, but polite. Yes, Ron they could sue your if you injured them while working in their house. Mad Dog
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That's happened to me too......
All you gotta do is turn around and give a dirty look - he'll get the hint. If he still persists, say: "Ok you wanna lead the way, be my guest...." MD
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Odd Customers
Did a new H2O boiler, plus A/C and gas piping for a new Pizza Shop. First day the owner pulls up a lawn chair 2 ft. behind me and starts cursing like a trooper about the price and whether I knew anything or not. I had just set the boiler so I put my appliance cart back on the boiler and proceeded to take it back to my truck. He liked to soil his pants when I told him I take no verbal abuse from no-one and I'm sorry I don't need his job. He followed me to the truck trying to make amends. Two days later, he calls again and by now I have found out that he is a chronic bitcher and that no-one would do that job. I told him that on the phone and if he wanted me to do the job, the price had increased and he will pay upfront and if he ever showed up while I was working the job ends then and there and I will walk.
There was a pregnant silence and a meek "I will get back to you". I all so informed him I had another job on line and would need the check and assurance of his absence by 5PM to insure I would be on his job by the next day. He stopped at my place an hour later with the check and his assurance he would not be on the jobsite while I was there.
After I finshed the job, He was telling everyone what a nice and neat job he got and he sent me a a dozen free coupons for pizza. Go figure some of these birds out.0 -
I just bring down my vacuum if they bother me. After a few minutes of me vacuuming the entire boiler area they usually leave. Then I will change out the circ or what not.0 -
Psychology
there is so much psycholgy going on during the 1st moments of that 1st service call. Its kinda falls on us the service guys to make the customer feel comfortable and begin to trust our skills as quickly a possible. Your New customer is reading everything about you from the time you pull in the drive, how you carry your self how you are dressed, is the outside of the truck clean. They watch the way you present your self at the door how you response to the dog and the kids do you wipe you feet weather they need it or not.
The past experiences of the homeowner with other trade and home improvment people may tend to lead to distrusting you. So think about the customers side next time you enter the home. Maybe going so far as to asking if they have had bad experiences with tradesmen in the past and what they would be willing to share about that experience. Work toward making that person your customer for life.
Best Wishes J. Lockard0 -
Watchers. Listeners and Talkers
Being a rather personable sort, I don't mind at all when someone watches or even offers advice. It gives me a chance to correct their thinking if their wrong and me a chance to learn something if they are right. I really enjoy the stories that some of the old duffers get to telling when they are down there with just me and the equipment in the basement. People tend to talk more freely when they are on their own turf and some of them really get going. I grew up in the family hardware store turning wrenchs while people watched their pump/lawnmower/chainsaw/snowblower being repaired. Maybe I'm just used to it and accept it as normal.
This post reminds me of a good story. After WWII all of my wife's 4 uncles and father came home from the service and went into the heating business. Her dad got a job in a factory and helped the rest of the tribe part time. They all lived in Grand Rapids Mi for a few years after the war.
Three of the uncles, Harold, Mel, and Hank were all working on a renovation in a big old house on the East side of GR for an 60-ish woman who had never been married and she was constantly peeking in on them down in the basement. This riled Uncle Mel up just a tad because he thought she didn't trust them. (I always kidded him that the old gal just wanted to watch 3 strapping 20 something men swinging wrenches in their t-shirts)
Anyway, dad-in-law would come right out of work from the factory and arrive at 3:30 sharp everyday to work a few hours with them. The thing was, after he had been standing there on the line all day with no breaks, he had to pee, bad. He found that an old, unused laundry tub in the basement worked just fine as a urinal and used it as such first thing when he arrived. Mel, being the joker that he always was to his dying day, thought he would have some fun with dad-in-law. He told the old gal that they would need her to stay out of the basement from noon til about 3:30 but when she heard him bang the pipes she should come quickly as they would need her opinion on something. This got her all excited according to Uncle Hank. 3:30 came and so did dad-in-law who headed for the sink, which was about 4 feet in front of the basement entry door. Mel promptly hammered on the pipe to alert the lady that she was needed. Dad-in-law was standing there experiencing great relief when she opened the door and stood there face to face with him. Uncle Mel swore that the old gal's jaw literally hit the floor while dad-in-law choked it off and reeled it in. She turned about 9 shades of red and started back up the stairs, then abruptly, came marching back down and demanded to know what Mel wanted her for. Of course he was stumped for an answer because the only reason he had asked her to come down was to cause a rukus with dad-in-law. He promptly blurted out that dad-in-law was getting married and he wanted her opinion as to whether she thought he was ready. This went over like a lead brick. She fumed and scolded and told them they were vulgar pagans and that she should call the police, then paused, and with a sly smile, offered that she thought dad-in-law would do quite nicely and would he like to test it out to see if it worked. At that point all of them were quite speechless upon the realization that she had called their bluff and just stood there gawking at the woman. Uncle Hank said they were all just staring at her when she added that if they wanted to strut their stuff they better be able to back it up. With that she went back upstairs and never peeked in on them again.0 -
Reminds me...
of my grand pa, who was a master drain layer, which meant he spent his share of time in the bottom of a ditch, weilding a shovel. Legend has it that one day, he was in the bottom of the ditch, doing his thing when the urge to purge his bladder hit. He simply flopped open his fly and let 'er rip. Unfortunately, at just about the same time he was releiving his bladder, a rather nosy young woman peered over the side of the ditch to see what was going on. She screamed. He shrunk himself into nothingness, and she ran away.
Shortly thereafter, a policeman showed up at the excavation site with the young nosy woman it tow. Said the officer to my grand father, "This woman says you shook it at her, is that true?" to which my grandfather replied in his Swedish accent, "Vell, ya, I always shakes it before I puts it back, don't you? To which the officer scolded the young lady for putting her nose someplace it didn't belong...
I was also told that he could stand in the middle of the street and pee down the handle of the shovel and the only way you'd know something was going on was by the stream emminating from the base of the shovel. They didn't have porta potties back then:-)
ME0
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