Tigerloop

joe c_2

I have a Gold Weil Mclain Boiler (WTGO-1995)-cold start with two new tanks (2002), single line, Garber Filter and Tigerloop feeding a Beckett burner fired at 1.00gph. It is connected to a 6" zflex round chimney liner system. The boiler seems to soot up more than expected for only burning 700 gallons a year. Should it be changed from a cold start to a triple acquastat? What else can be done/added to keep it running clean and keep it from creating back pressure over time?

ed wallace

problem boiler

was the boiler set up to factory specs was an effeincy test ever done? whats the smoke reading ?

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joe c_2

Set up properly with draft and 0 smoke, 85% efficiency

P. Smith

triple acquastat

does your boiler run all year round or just used in the winter and turned off in the summer? if so does it seam to be sooted up the worst at the beginning of the heating season? because if youre not running the boiler all year long the moisture in the summer air mixed with the sulfur in the soot will cause sulfuric acid. The sulfuric acid sitting all summer long will deteriate the heat exchanger. The aguastat's low limit will keep a minumum temp in the boiler and keep the soot from getting to moiste and blocking the heat exchanger to much. an aquastat should langthen the life of the boiler alot. worth the money.

If i have any of this info wrong please post to let me know

J.C.A._3

1 other suggestion...

Update the primary control to the newer style and an oil valve. Pre-purge and post-purge controls go a long way in controling soot buildup.

Most byproducts of combustion(soot is such a nasty word!) are formed on starting and shutdown of the unit. If the air has time to establish a draft, while giving the oil pump enough time to come up to proper pressure BEFORE letting the oil go, it will result in less byproduct formation. Cutting off the oil while the pump is at full speed, electrically, makes for a quicker/cleaner shut down, and feeding air to the firebox after the oil shuts off will extend the life of the components that are closest to the fire and purge any left over exhaust where it belongs.

Another thing that we did back then was to lower the firing rate of the nozzle, and raise the pump pressure to get back to the stated firing rate. The fuel atomized a lot better, leading to cleaner fires. This is not a homeowner repair! The unit MUST be retested and confirmed to be running well .

The upfront cost , I feel, will more than pay for themselves in service and heat exchanger fouling savings.
Chris

Mark Wolff

Nozzle

If you are sooting up, you do not have zero smoke. Period. Whether you checked it or a service person lied to you, zero smoke does not create soot. It sounds mainly like whoever tuned your boiler...

A) didn't use test equipment (Testo, Bacharach, etc.)
didn't understand the equipment he/she used.
C) cheated on the test readings to misguide you.
D) Didn't retighten screws after setting system and the settings moved.

Have a boiler technician check your pump pressure. If it's at 100psi, it needs to be boosted to 145, and a smaller nozzle put in. Weil-McLain changed their factory setups to this because the fuel atomizes better, and the smaller nozzle keeps the firing rate the same.

It sounds like you have a light load on the unit compared with its design btu output. Does the boiler fire and run for a minute and shut off for five? If so, a smaller nozzle would help the system burn longer while using less fuel and burn cleaner.

Is it a WTGO-3 or WTGO-4? The #3 only needs .90 gallons per hour according to specs. a 1.00 nozzle at 100 psi would be too large and at 145 psi would be a full 1/3 too much. The excess fuel and short cycling would create excess soot problems while you could still get good efficiency. The #4 requires 1.20 gallons per hour, so a 1.00 at 145 psi (according to Delavan) would deliver 1.20 gallons per hour, exactly what you need. At 100 psi you would be undersized on your fuel supply, at 145 psi it would be perfect.

If it has the F3 or F6 flame retention head on the gun, use a 80* spray pattern, that's what they come with from the factory.

On a #3 have them put in a .85x80 B nozzle at 100psi or a .75x80 B nozzle at 145psi.

On a #4 have them put in a 1.20x80 B nozzle at 100psi or a 1.00x80 B nozzle at 145psi.

Tune first for zero smoke, then for efficiency.

Have your boiler tech read this and make sure he understands it.

Also, I would change to the triple aquastat relay setup, it seems to run cleaner.

jose

air

Make sure the unit has enough air coming into the mechanical room, I've had it where customers add a dryer next to or around the boiler and starve the burner of air. It might look like you have enough in an open basement but once the windows and doors are closed its not.

J.C.A._3

Great Point Jose.

Gotta have the air for proper combustion, NO DOUBT! Chris

Leo_3

Weil Gold

Joe,

I have set these up right by the book and next year they were filthy. Like others said there was a nozzle and pump pressure change. These are finicky units and I have seen too many sooted or evidence of them sooting. Definately change it from cold start, keep it warm all year. The amount of extra fuel will be minimal and you will have a much better running system.
Good Luck,

Leo

Steamhead

Could also be

the tech set up the burner for maximum CO2 during mild weather, without leaving a margin of safety for heavier air, more viscous oil etc when the weather got cold.

Firedragon recommends getting the highest CO2 possible with zero smoke, then opening the air shutter enough to drop the CO2 one percent or so. This gives some wiggle room. I don't have the experience of some of you, but this method works for me.

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joe c_2

YOU GUYS ARE GREAT! thanks. here are the answers to your questions and my conclusions based on your comments and questions.

1. It is a WTGO 4 boiler with a F4 head on the burner and 145 pump pressure with a delavan 1.00 80 degree B nozzle. The only downside is the boiler makes a loud-bang when it first ignites-since the pressure of the pump was changed-I noticed it.

2. I do have a dryer in the same room! 30x12 in size.

3. boiler does cycle on and then off for longer periods of time.

4. the soot is worse at the beginning of the season-when it has been off for the summer.

Conclusions based on your input:

1. Change to a triple aquastat from the l8148A control to which model?

2. Add an outside air kit-any particular one?

3. Change primary controls and add oil cutoff-models?

3a. Would a Delavan ProTek nozzle do the same thing?

4. Besides brushing, does adding soot sticks (like they recommend for a wood stove) help during the season?
Does spraying the heat exchanger with a mist of water help remove the soot?

5. Does a Tigerloop actually help by removing air and preheating the oil and providing a cleaner shutoff?

6. Any benefit to adding Hot 4 in 1 oil treatment to the outside tanks? I have heard that besides keeping oil from gelling up, it reduces soot etc.


thanks again for your expertise!

jOE

Richard D._2

Weil Mc. and Beckett

We had a run of sooting a while ago..Weil sent the Becketts w/a retenion head on the large side of the firing rate>. F6 when a F3 would be close to maxing the head..We fire the smallest head to the GPH we can..Helped with the static pressure I would say..Some were being cleaned 2or 3 timesa year..Now Only once a year..How much make up air do you have?? And I agree w/the triple stat to maintain a lo temp..Richard

joe c_2

REPOST AT END OF RESPONSES


YOU GUYS ARE GREAT! thanks. here are the answers to your questions and my conclusions based on your comments and questions.

1. It is a WTGO 4 boiler with a F4 head on the burner and 145 pump pressure with a delavan 1.00 80 degree B nozzle. The only downside is the boiler makes a loud-bang when it first ignites-since the pressure of the pump was changed-I noticed it.

2. I do have a dryer in the same room! 30x12 in size.

3. boiler does cycle on and then off for longer periods of time.

4. the soot is worse at the beginning of the season-when it has been off for the summer.

Conclusions based on your input:

1. Change to a triple aquastat from the l8148A control to which model?

2. Add an outside air kit-any particular one?

3. Change primary controls and add oil cutoff-models?

3a. Would a Delavan ProTek nozzle do the same thing?

4. Besides brushing, does adding soot sticks (like they recommend for a wood stove) help during the season? Does spraying the heat exchanger with a mist of water help remove the soot?

5. Does a Tigerloop actually help by removing air and preheating the oil and providing a cleaner shutoff?

6. Any benefit to adding Hot 4 in 1 oil treatment to the outside tanks? I have heard that besides keeping oil from gelling up, it reduces soot etc.

thanks again for your expertise!

jOE

Richard D._2

Add ons

All the triple stats are fine.I favor the Honeywell.
Beckett makes a good kit..Be sure to install vac breaker with it..It is a minie draft dampre,in case outside air is blocked it will draw from basement..
I do not believe in chem. cleaning,may help but I do not believe by much..
Tiger Loop is great use them with great results.
Hot oil treatment seems to work and w/outside O.T. it should help alot..I use Hot alot..Good Luck...Richard

mph

Cold oil

I was taught that at a given pump pressure you will get a higher firing rate with cold oil than with warm. If you set your burner up during the summer, when the weather turns cold you will start running too rich (especially if you have an above ground oil tank). This is especially true with a two-pipe system. Adding a Tigerloop definitely keeps the fuel warm (just feel the difference in temp on the supply line from the oil tank vs the supply from the Tigerloop.

Jeff

Mark Wolff

very true!

Despite what our brains tell us, the colder fuel does flow more than warm fuel. Check out Delevan's website for a technical explanation.

Mark Wolff

More info

1. They have a nasty habit of that,due to the B style nozzle and the physical dimensions of the boiler. One option, though I don't recommend it is to switch to an identical sized nozzle in the W style. The different fuel spray pattern seems to ease up the hard kick on firing.
3. If you don't want the boiler to cycle on 1 minute and off 5, try going down to a .85x80 B nozzle at the same pressure. There is a good chance your boiler is slightly oversized for your home, and the lower fuel rate will bring a slightly longer burn time, without sacrificing too much on btu output.
4. Keep the boiler on all year.
5. Change to a triple aquastat (Honeywell L8124 A 1155) for individual high and low temp knobs and adjustable differential.
6. Just add combustion air to the room. This would be better for the dryer too.
7. You don't really need to change primary controls, but if you want to use the (Honeywell R4184 D 1027) primary control. You don't need a oil cut-off valve if you switch to the Delavan ProTek nozzles (they have an integral needle valve that opens and closes based on pressure.
8. Soot sticks should be used extremely rarely, the burning releases a chemical (don't ask me to spell it!) that accelerates deterioration of the cast iron.
9. Tigerloops go on ALL our boiler installs, and most of the ones we are servicing. They allow the air to be removed from a fuel line while preheating the oil for more efficient combustion.