System 2000

Chris V

What model oil burner does the sytem 2000 come with? Any positive or negative opinions on the system would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

joe_14

buner

system 2000 comes with a beckett afg burner. its a steel boiler,i prefer a cast iron boiler. however these boilers have worked well in the field. they are very effecent and there digtal manager works very well. they also use a flat plate heat exchanger with a storage tank to supply a lot of hot water. all in all a good boiler hope this helps joe. g.

Leo

System 2000

I have worked on them with both Beckett and Carlin burners.

Leo

Jack, CVMS

EK System 2000

From what I've seen, they can be a pretty good, efficient boiler. It's extremely important that they be installed according to the instructions. Nearly every problem I've encountered on them could be traced back to improper installation. That said, I still cannot recommend them for use in extreme climates, such as interior Alaska. Here, a cast iron boiler still seems to fit best. As technology improves, however, that may not be true much longer.

Mark Wolff

Energy Kinetics System 2000

The factory reps are really pushing for sales in AK, and we have one contractor installing them regularly here. I have gone to the installation/servicing class and got my certificate (YIPEE!), but I won't install or service them.

Service requires a system specific diagnostic circuit board (think expensive, easy to break, not service personnel friendly). A full third of the course was the rep. trying to convince use that the AFUE rating standard could not be relied upon to properly rate THIS boiler, because a brilliant person designed it. Even though it has marginally good efficiency ratings (there are cast-iron boilers that put it to shame (www.aboutopus.com), the whole cold to hot to cold to hot to cold... cycle idea just doesn't work well in climates that truly get cold (think how quick the water cools and freezes from room temperature as opposed to 180*).

They make a cute package, which usually is butchered by the aweful looking piping many installers connect to it, but if you want to spend extra money on a system that isn't as efficient as its less expensive counterparts, go ahead. If you just like the size and weight, try a Burnham LEDV series steel boiler; (http://www.burnham.com/residential/51210.cfm) it's light, keeps up to temperature and has comparable efficiency.

Paul Mitchell

Great product

Have one in my house with a Beckett burner. You can get Carlin also. Never had a worry with these. Average about one to two a month that we install.
Efficiency...MyHouse was heating with a cast iron boiler and 30 gal oil fired hot water heater. House is 2000 sq ft. Was burning 1190 gallons per year. Now burning 7-800.

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Jack_23

AFUE is bogus

Bogus in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect efficiencies of modulating equipment. On an afue test they basically take the unit and fire it on high fire for the rating, thereby ignoring all the pluses of the modulating technolgy. There is no good test standard for modulating equipment. I don't think there will be either, for a while anyway, as most of that technology is manuf off shore and the US manuf are not pushing for it. that should start to change as more modulating equipment is produced in this country. Then again, on oil, we have no burner modulation capability. To bad!

heatboy

It's the best of ......

this genre. By that, I refer to, low mass, low water volume steel boilers. Not CI boilers like the Freeport. I have installed quite a few EKs of the years and aside from the plate HX, there have been no issues. My oldest one is circa 1989 and is still purring along.

The factory people that I know are very passionate about the low mass approach. And while I do joust with them a bit about it, I can't help but admire them for their convictions.

hb

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Chris V

Alaska

Hey Jack,What type of heating systems do they use in Alaska?
Oil-gas,Steam,hotwater,warm air. What's the burner and boiler/furnace of choice? Thanks from New York.

Jack, CVMS

Heating in Alaska

Depends a lot on the area. Anchorage, the Matanuska Valley, and the Kenai Peninsula have natural gas, so that's the fuel of choice, and by far the least expensive. The rest of the state is stuck with oil. LPG is found in rare instances, because of its expense. Where I live it's over $2.50/gallon., and with its lower BTU content, just not worth it. An additional problem - it quits vaporizing at 42°F, so tanks need to be buried, or there had better be a wood stove in the house.

While there probably are some somewhere else, I have never seen a steam system in Alaska except in some very old, historic mine buildings. My guess is that overall we're probably pretty close to 50/50 hot water/scorched air.

In my experience the most popular boiler is the Weil-McLain. I've had extremely good experience with them, but the reason they're so common could be that the state's largest wholesaler sells them. We also see quite a few Burnhams, and a few Slant/Fins, with all the others put together not amounting to more than 5%. The guys in other parts of the state may have different experiences. For scorched air, we have Williamson and Lennox as the main contenders, with most of the other brands showing up on occasion.

As for burners - around here, we spec Beckett as often as possible. Not necessarily because they're the best, but they are very good, and reliable. Also, it's much easier to stock parts for just one brand than try to cover them all, so that's what we choose. There are a few Carlins around, some Waynes, and a few Aeros. Haven't seen but one Riello around here. Don't like anything that I can't get parts for easily, as I have to drive 140 to 180 miles to my suppliers, and I want to keep as much as possible in my own stock. And if I have to go out on a no-heat call at 40 below (as it is right now) I want to have everything I might need with me when I go. That's much easier when you aren't working with three or four different brands.

Chris V

Thanks Jack

Steve Eayrs

Ek-1's w/ reillos

We have been installing the Reillo oil burners on all our EK-1 boilers but the EK-2 standard is a Carlin. The large majority of EK's we installed in the past are the EK-1 an w/ the Beckett. Due to the large amount of problems. Bad burner motors, primary controls, and various no heat calls due to faulty beckett parts, we switched to Reillo whenever possible, about 8 years ago. On the EK boilers the Reillo is not any extra cost.

Jack, You must be up around Delta area, judging by your 140-180 miles to get parts? I bet if you tried the Reillo you would find you don't need near as many parts, plus you can get a nice little metal Reillo repair part box, with all the parts for the F3 and F5 Reillo burners in it, and its smaller than a lunch box. In the amount of time you have had to restock the truck with Beckett parts a few times, you may not even need one of the Reillo parts. They are in stock in both Anchorage and Fairbanks FNW's.

A fair amount of the Kenai Penn. is outside of the Natural gas piped areas. Every place on the Southern part, ( Homer and surrounding area), and I believe also Seward, are an oil or propane market.
Around are area (Homer), we have installed aprox. 200 EK boiler, since around 1990. They are a great little boiler, if installed right. Regardless of what some might think of the rating system and cold start boilers, etc.. I have seen the proof in the fuel consumption. Have tore out many Weil McClain boiler and installed the EK and seen between 20-30% less fuel consumed. The only problem we have had w/ EK is the occasional boiler that shows up down here, that was sold by the dealer up the road. Seems they think they are some kind of appliance that the home owner just needs to take home and plug in. Needless to say these particular systems are usually piped wrong, and of course it the boiler thats at fault.
We don't use EK's for all applications. We install a fair amount of Buderus and Veissmann and even a few propane boilers. Propane doesn't cost as much as up where Jack is at, but still ends up at least 50% more per btu than oil. I would say that 90% of the new construction is boilers, with a fair amount radiant floor systems.

Steve

Jack, CVMS

Close, Steve

I'm in Glennallen. Yeah, the EK will probably work all right where you are, but that's the banana belt. ;^))

Up here in ALASKA, they don't do so well. And as you've noted too, there's more to installation than simply plumbing them in and walking away. We had a fellow around here who would install them but he wouldn't go back and service them. Found out why on one of his installs - the operating and limit aquastats were reversed, and no system bypass. We'er finding the same on Burnham LEDV's - no bypass, even though the instructions clearly state that it is necessary. "Instructions? What instructions?"

Who do you get most of your equipment through? In state? Or Outside supplier? So far, I've been using FNW almost exclusively, but always looking to improve the situation where possible.