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Thread sealant for steam
install , and one of the 4 inch nipples had a slight leak . We used Rectorseal 5 alone for this one - no Teflon , because on another big steamer we had at least 5 leaks using Teflon and Rectorseal , what a nightmare .
Is there a better sealant that works for steam and large diameter pipe ? Maybe something that can be used with Teflon ( easy to disassemble , if needs be ) ? Thanks in advance .
Is there a better sealant that works for steam and large diameter pipe ? Maybe something that can be used with Teflon ( easy to disassemble , if needs be ) ? Thanks in advance .
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Comments
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If you don't want it to leak...
....use pipedope and lampwick..Use cast fitting for future repairs.Have you tried Mega Lock yet ?I'am a fan.
P.S. A must on brass pipe and adaptors..0 -
Anything other
than lampwick ? We do have it , but I cannot get that rope in the grooves no matter how hard I try . Hey , does someone make lampwick in a tape ?0 -
Quickwick
Quickwick is the real name but everyone knows it as lampwick.lampwick was used for packing drainpipes. Quickwick is a thick cotton thread which comes in a spool. To hold it in place ....hold it with you thumb from the pipe side or end of the threads . ,run it out across the threads to the start of the thread ,then run it around along the groove and over the tail your holding with your thumb then continue around 5-6 times. Then apply the pipe sealant . I use to apply the sealant first , my partner taught me the later.. I came full circle back to lamp wick. I hate leaks . Cost you at least a hour per leak..You know the deal...0 -
where does one
get lampwick?..0 -
You'll Never
get it apart, Expando , but you won't have a leak. My first job in the fuel oil business, this is the only stuff old Dan used above 2" and for steam.0 -
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Megalok
Megalok is the best pipe dope I have used. It doesn't leak; ever. I have yet to have a leak on any of my fittings I used it on, and you can get the fitting apart down the road if it needs to be repaired.
Expando works great for sealing, but like someone else said, you'll never get it apart.0 -
Ron
Try an anaerobic pipe sealant. It is a little pricey but it cost far less then a repair.
We use it on all heating work and anything over 1 inch in size.
David
> install , and one of the 4 inch nipples had a
> slight leak . We used Rectorseal 5 alone for this
> one - no Teflon , because on another big steamer
> we had at least 5 leaks using Teflon and
> Rectorseal , what a nightmare .
>
> Is there a
> better sealant that works for steam and large
> diameter pipe ? Maybe something that can be used
> with Teflon ( easy to disassemble , if needs be )
> ? Thanks in advance .
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I've Had...
...very disappointing results with Megalok on high pressure steam service. The can says it's good to 400*F, but I dispute that. We've used it in a plant where they don't wan't us to use Teflon, on steam lines that run about 350*F, and the Megalok just doesn't make it. Leak after leak, even on factory nipples into fittings. It just cooks away, leaving metal on metal - what a "special treat" to get apart. We need a 3 foot wrench, a 2-1/2 lb hammer and two big guys to get 1" nipples out of fittings. We talked to the production manager, and suggested that if he let us use T-Tape, the leaks would be fixed once and for all. He said OK, and we even used the same nipples and fittings, with orange T-tape. Leaks that re-appeared every two weeks, are GONE.
We've just recently used the heavy orange T-Tape on a some 3" screwed joints (on 120 PSIG steam service), in another plant, and had no problems at all.
I suspect that a lot of the problems people have with threaded joints can be traced back to the actual threads themselves. I don't do much copper work, but the last time I looked at a male adapter, I thought the peaks of the threads didn't look like they came to much of a point. They looked really rounded. I thought to myself "...this looks like a nasty piece of junk".
There are really only two things that thread sealant (tape or dope) is supposed to do:
1/ Fill in the spiral leak path between the roots and crests. This should be a pretty small clearance on properly cut threads, because the mating roots & crests on the pipe and fittings should closely match. The bigger the clearance between the root and crest of mating threads, the greater the spiral clearance, and the harder it is to get tape or dope to seal it.
2/ Lubricate the metal surfaces so the fitting can be screwed on far enough to get a leak tight joint, without generating an undue amount of heat by friction.
I further suspect that the majority of these thread problems are due to improper field threading of pipe - like the plumber that gets referred to in another string who "cut's 'em deep" imagining that he's getting better thread engagement. He's not. He's just leaving himself a thread that allows him to get about 6 or 7 turns to hand tight. And the spiral clearance is now HUGE.
A couple of questions:
1/ For the guys who use wholesalers to cut threads for them - do these tend to be the threads that you have trouble sealing? There's only one wholesaler that I would let cut threads for me, and they don't actually DO it. They've got a deal with a big machine shop behind them for machining the raised faces off flanges, threading, etc.
2/ Do you have a guy (or guys), who likes to "cut 'em deep"?0 -
Plumbing Supply
Any plumbing supply should have it .Quick wick is what you want for pipe threads . It's a thick cotton thread , we call it lampwick . But lamp wick comes in a loose multi thread twine used in drain packings.I guess they use to pull it apart to use it on pipe fitting at one time. They also make lampwick and graphite great for large packing nuts.
At one time some plumbers used quick wick alone without pipedope which caused the pipe to rot . The cotton would expand with water sealing the pipe thread. If used quickwick alone it would leak , seal ,dry out ,leak again until the pipe rotted out .I don't run into that problem anymore that old method I guess is long gone.
Brass fitting and adapters as you know are a leak problem with pipedope or teflon. Quickwick and pipedope is the answer to the problem..
Qickwick and a softset dope will not seize fittings.It's the hard set dope that causes furture cursing. Softset and quickwick is stiffer then teflon which I feel helps when building manifolds .
I stared out with quickwick and pipedope before we even had teflon tape. Teflon was our savior from the mess(before latex gloves) ,I took the route ,with all the combinations of teflon and pipedopes but went back to quickwick like alot of my fellow grunts from my era (45-60)..Because we all hated leaks... My Grandpappy always said "If you don't want it to leak use lampwick"
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Tony
On a steam boiler we installed in a movie theater we had leaks on pipes that were threaded at the supply house as well as the pre-made nipples of various sizes . We used Teflon 1st , Rectorseal over that , and Rector inside the fitting as well . We had 5 leaks on 4 inch pipe . One ell was hand tight when we took it apart , and I am positive I tightened that one with the 4 foot wrench , and hard too . It was extremely cold when we installed this boiler - the cast iron , fittings , and pipe were all exposed to the cold and installed in that weather . Do you think that was a factor for some of the leaks ?
Where do you get this orange tape ? It sounds like it's well worth trying out , as well as coming full circle like Big Ed and using lapwick once again . Thank you Tony for all this info .0 -
Are there some
brand names for the anaerobic sealants you know of ? If it keeps the pipes leak free , it's worth alot more than it's weight in gold , if you had a 4 inch leak you know exactly what I mean . Thank you David .0 -
Hey Ron
> install , and one of the 4 inch nipples had a
> slight leak . We used Rectorseal 5 alone for this
> one - no Teflon , because on another big steamer
> we had at least 5 leaks using Teflon and
> Rectorseal , what a nightmare .
>
> Is there a
> better sealant that works for steam and large
> diameter pipe ? Maybe something that can be used
> with Teflon ( easy to disassemble , if needs be )
> ? Thanks in advance .
Check this out http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=102
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=102
I posted this one years ago.
I still hold that basic reason for dope is still mis-understood! It is not primarily a "sealant." It is a lubricant first - and a sealant second.
Lampwick is NOT a sealant. It is a "cork" that allows leakage in varying amounts - similar in properties of a cork in a wine bottle. I have never seen a wicked fitting to pipe not be totally destroyed by internal corrosion after time.0 -
We had
Freddy , a fellow installer who retired a few years ago , who used lampwick and Rector on everything except the pressure reducer , expansion tank , drains and air eliminator . He never had a thread leak . He had plenty of solder leaks though , because his old saying was " clean the pipe , not the fitting , it's cleaned at the factory " .0 -
If We...
...get a leak at a thread we've cut, the first thing I think is that we botched it somehow. When we get a leak with a factory nipple into a fitting...grrrrr.
What are the cast iron fittings like, quality wise? (The only CI materials I use are things like 250# strainers, control valves, etc., and I haven't experienced any problems with them.) I know that a lot of the 150# malleable stuff we come across is just junk, anymore.
Cast iron and steel aren't much different, as far as properties like expansion, corrosion resistance, etc goes. (Brittleness and therefore pressure ratings are a fair bit different.) If everything is about the same temp when it goes together, I can't see it making much of a difference. The temperature difference that you'll see from normal 70*F room temp to on-line (maybe 215*F or so for the stuff you do?) will be much greater. For much of the stuff we do it'll be from 70*F to 350* or 360*F.
I know that a LOT of the steel pipe is just remelted scrap metal crap. We even hit a chunk of 1/2" sch 80 A106B seamless (the GOOD stuff) that left us with several torn threads. When we cut it with the band saw, you could tell it was harder - the blade smoked as it went through. The chunk we had problems with was a left-over piece from another job, and when we grabbed a length that we'd just had delivered, it threaded very nicely. I think that junk material (both pipe & fittings) is a big factor in a many threaded joint problems. I also think that threading steel pipe has largely become "The Lost Art Of Threading Pipe". I encounter people in plants who say "Oh, we don't use threaded pipe anymore. Too many leaks. We weld everything." The problem is that they've got a crew of maintenance guys who've never been shown how to set the dies up, don't use the right dope or tape, and don't know what the fitting allowances are. They're routinely cutting the threads too deep, using the wrong dope for the service, and their piping is badly sprung because they don't know what the take-aways are for the fittings.
The Teflon tape we use is "T-Tape" by the G.F. Thompson Co. Limited. They're in Newmarket Ontario. I see Grainger has (Acklands-Grainger here) has "Petro-Tape" in their catalogue. I may check that out. We've found that if you put too much on, you can see the tape slide up the pipe are you're tightening the fitting. (I think it's just the top layer of tape sliding over the lower layer.) We wrap the tape on the same way the fitting tightens on, then use the edge of the spool to chase the threads - pushing the tape down into the thread root. This helps keep the tape where you want it, as opposed to some of it getting pushed out and up onto the face of the fitting.
As far as lampwick goes, I don't think it will stand up very well on higher pressure and temperature steam service. I think it will carbonize into dust. When I first started working for the district steam heating operation, there was pieces of planks and 4X4s left down some of the manholes for a year or so. The air temp was high enough in these manholes that the wood would carbonize into a big piece of charcoal. It was pretty impressive. I think lampwick will suffer the same fate.0 -
I Think...
... sealing and lubrication are equally important. This is out of "Ipt's Industrial Hydraulics Handbook".
"Due to the clearance between the root of the internal thread and the crest of the mating external thread, there may be a spiral clearance along the length of the thread; therefore a sealant must be used on NPT threads. The sealant should be applied to the external threads only, avoiding the first one or two threads, to reduce the possibility of system contamination. The sealant will also act as a lubricant to reduce the chance of galling. A variation of the NPT thread that is used for hydraulic purposes is the Dryseal ANSI Standard Taper Pipe Thread (NPTF). This thread has the same form and dimensions as the NPT thread, except that the truncation of the crests and roots is changed to ensure that the spiral clearance around the thread is eliminated. (The NPTF pipe thread is also known as the "National Pipe Tapered Thread For Fuels".)
The interference at the crest and root of the mating parts of this thread eliminates the need for a sealant to seal any clearances. Be aware that assembling any thread system without lubrication can lead to galling, expecially with materials such as stainless steel or other nickel alloys. A thread sealant should be used with this thread for anti-galling purposes.
Note: Special taps and dies are required for making this type of thread. Unless specially marked, NPTF threads are not easily distinguishable from NPT threads."
This little book is one of an extremely informative set on a range of industrial trades (for what I do and rub up against, anyway) published by IPT, in Edmonton Alberta. (www.iptbooks.com).0 -
> brand names for the anaerobic sealants you know
> of ? If it keeps the pipes leak free , it's worth
> alot more than it's weight in gold , if you had a
> 4 inch leak you know exactly what I mean . Thank
> you David .
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Give this link a try.
http://www.gsasupplyco.com/fasansealwit.html
We order it by the case.I am pretty sure if you call they will send you a sample.
Anything more then the first three threads and you are wasting the sealant.
I hear you about the leaks. I only have leaks at the lowest point of any system and on the ones that take an hour to drain.
Best Of Luck
David
> brand names for the anaerobic sealants you know
> of ? If it keeps the pipes leak free , it's worth
> alot more than it's weight in gold , if you had a
> 4 inch leak you know exactly what I mean . Thank
> you David .
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permatex----put it on ,make it up and forget about it. a little messy but when all else fails ----it works. period and it was invented and manufactured in brooklyn0 -
wick
we have ALWAYS used lampwick & schmear on anything below the waterline. any plumbers of my generation [ circ. 1960 ] use wick on all water lines.---brass,gal. steam & hot water work etc. almost 100 % leak-proof. now Gas lines are another story0 -
Obvious, but necessary
I'll also state the obvious for the homeowners and others who haven't been doing this a long time...
Always end your turn by tightening; if you overtighten a fitting and then loosen it-even just a tiny little bit- you are asking for a leak. The threads meet on one face as they tighten, they don't just float in the middle. If you start to loosen that fitting, you first move the threads to the opposite face breaking any seal that was created, and now your fitting has much more likelihood of leaking.
If you do overtighten, take the time to take the fitting back off and redope it OR at least back it off a whole turn and then retighten (only if you used lots of pipe dope).0 -
Magalok...
Megalok for everything water-related. We recently started trying other products for oil piping though. Have noticed some seepage around oil tank piping after a year or two where we used megalok.0 -
>>> Anything more then the first three threads and you are wasting sealant.
===============
I guess you wouldn't want to waste much of that stuff seeing as it's $37.50 a can. I usually like to be generous with the sealant though, don't want to get a leak from skimping on it.0 -
The tube that the product comes in seems to make it easy to get an equal amount of sealant on the pipe.
When the fitting is made up it looks like the sealant was put on with a caulk gun.
Give it a try. I think you will like it.
David
&>
> I guess you
> wouldn't want to waste much of that stuff seeing
> as it's $37.50 a can. I usually like to be
> generous with the sealant though, don't want to
> get a leak from skimping on it.
0
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