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No heat ?air problem

Bill NTSG
Bill NTSG Member Posts: 321
in THE MAIN WALL
New boiler. existing system. 2" copper main 9 modine unit heaters 20+ ft above boiler. Every modine has a hyvent and the main has 3 more. Boiler has [2] 1/2" spiro top vents.

Office zone has 60' of 1" commercial fin tube and 008. The office never has heat unless you purge zone. gets air bound.

The modine zone has about 120' ft pipe and 1" take offs from main. It has a 1600 series taco pump.


I know why , but could some one please explain for the site plumber and his supervisor? Thankyou, I have somewhat of a conflict here because I was involved with the install.

Thanks in advance for your help , Bill.

Comments

  • Bill NTSG
    Bill NTSG Member Posts: 321
    I have

    Invited some guests, please help?
  • bob young
    bob young Member Posts: 2,177


    sounds like sabatage. call a plumber
  • Tony_8
    Tony_8 Member Posts: 608
    okay

    I'll bite.

    Circs on the return ? Fill pressure 12# ? Hy-vents open ?

    If so, pressure at hy-vents is NOT 12# ! More than likely LESS than 0 PSI. The little plastic "thingy" on the bottom of the hy-vent is a vacuum breaker, sorta. Keeps the float from dropping all the way down and blocking the tapping. A "band-aid" fix is to remove all these "thingys". A true, final fix is to "pump away".

    Did I pass ? :)
  • Bill NTSG
    Bill NTSG Member Posts: 321
    Yes

    the pumps are on the return, but I am told that can not be a problem because "It has always been like that, and We always do it that way".

    Also the pump is 3X bigger than the one that it replaced. I put a pressure gauge on the boiler drain right before the pump. Before I start the pump the gauge reads 20psi, when I start the pump the gauge goes to zero and stays there, does that mean anything?

    Everyone thinks I am wrong , but shouldn't the pump be on the supply?
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Bill

    Go in while they are not there and CLOSE all the high vents. Not only are you droppng the preasure ( you know why ) but the spirovent is making it air starved and it will suck it from anywhere. Do you have a steel expansion tank or diaphragm.

    By the way, who sized the pump ?

    Scott

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  • Earthfire
    Earthfire Member Posts: 543
    pump size

    If they won't listen bring in the rep for that pump manufacturer and have him check the pump specs required for that system and explain it to the plant personel. The in house guy will always hate you anyway but "STUPID" people never learn. By the way "STUPID "people are those that have blinders on and are not willing to learn & get beyond "always did it that way".By the way how old was the old boiler and why did it get replaced? Old age or negligent homicide? Could be a clue that it wasn't working the way it was.
  • Travis G.
    Travis G. Member Posts: 22
    pumping away

    If you know about pumping away then you must know that the pump is pulling in a negative pressure from the vents. Correct. Turn those high vents off. Check the pump size as well.
  • Travis G.
    Travis G. Member Posts: 22
    pumping away

    If you know about pumping away then you must know that the pump is pulling in a negative pressure from the vents. Correct. Turn those high vents off. Check the pump size as well.
  • Bill NTSG
    Bill NTSG Member Posts: 321
    Scott

    The pump was sized by the wholesaler and the Taco rep. engineer. The hyvents are 22 ft in the air . The plumber has a scissor lift but it is not on site. He will close them ASAP.

    I would be willing to bet a weeks wages that if I moved the pumps to the supply the problem would dissappear. But it was a low bid contract job and I was told to do as I was told , Period.

    I know how to fix it but it is not my name on the side of the truck and I do not sign the paychecks. Everyone wants it fixed , nobody is willing to pay.


    Did I ever tell you I was self employed once? I would fix it but then again I was never smart enough to charge enough money to stay in business. I truly HATE some one telling me how to pipe a boiler!
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Hey Bill (NTSG)

    You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.Knowing you just finished the Buderus training, under the watchful eye of Ed Sullivan, My thought would be to bring in the book that you got from him, and show them the picture of the pressure differential with both styles of circulation.

    A picture speaks a thousand words, if they don't get it after that....I think the only thing they'll understand is 4 letter words. (my guess is that they will mostly be theirs). Chris
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