Radiantec Defense

Robert Starr of Radiantec

Radiantec markets radiant systems that are uniquely efficient, highly affordable, very simple and of high quality. Most of our systems can be converted to use solar energy. We won the 1985 Department of Energy Award “for a significant contribution to our Nations’s energy efficiency”.

We provide stiff competition and some people who post to this site lose business to us on a regular basis.

They are entitled to their opinions, but they are spreading false information about Radiantec out of fear and ignorance.

I am not posting here to argue with anyone or to convince anyone. I am just providing documentation that tells another side of the story.

I have made my case at the very highest levels of the Department of Energy and the International Code Council. These organizations are staffed by the most qualified people in the world. AND THEY ARE UNBIASED.

If you want documentation of efficiency, go to http://www.radiantec.com/specialpage.htm Be sure to click on Combined Heating Systems and what they could mean for Vermont It is a PDF File. If you have slow service, you need to wait a while.

If you want detailed information about the Radiantec Open Direct System, goto http://www.radiantec.com/opendirect.htm .

Most importantly, goto the Better Business Bureau Logo, or goto http://www.bbbonline.org/consumer/ . The Better Business Bureau operates the most respected business complaint service in the country. They also do free complaint resolution. You can check us out there. We are in Vermont (VT) and our zip code is 05851.

You will see that there was only one complaint filed in 24 years and that was resolved, a truly remarkable record.

I ask my detractors to respond to that.

Mark Hunt

Good for you

That and a $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee here where I live pal.

IMHO, "Thou dost protest too much".

Do you have ANY idea as to how many of your "customers" end up here asking for help when the "dream" system doesn't work? DO YOU?!?!?!?!?

As long as I am on a roll Bobby, let me ask you this. Suppose one of your "customers" installs a combustion appliance wrong and kills someone in their home? WHAT WILL YOU DO THEN????? You think I am a thief? I over charge?
HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR WHOLE LIFE INSTALLED OR SERVICED A PIECE OF HEATING EQUIPMENT?!?!?!??!?!?! Would you like to get into a technical discussion about combustion bobby? What happens at 2 am and the system doesn't work? Are YOU going to be there at 2 am personally?!?!?!?! HMMMM?!?!?!?!

YOU WON'T!!!!!!!!!!! Don't come around here trying to "defend" your "honor" and "company" after you slandered mine pal!!!!!!!!!

Why would you even bother to be a member of the RPA?!?!?!? Why would you care what their members say????? Why are you trying to convince the "little people"???? Certainly we are no threat to the Ogre!

Tell your story walkin' pal. I've heard enough from you, and if Dan would allow it, I'd tell you where to go as well.

Mark H



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Robert Starr of Radiantec

I thought you would respond to my 24 year record with the Better Business Bureau. Why Not? So what if I don't do installation work?

You didn't really read what was on my site, did you? there wasn't enought time between the time I posted and the time you responded.

Mark Hunt

And I KNEW


you would NOT respond to my question about SERVICE AFTER THE SALE!

I don't give a rats bottom about the BBB! Is that the best you've got?! "Whew! Only one complaint filed with the BBB!!!"

Stapling up tubing isn't rocket science Robert, you and I both know it. Firing a combustion appliance is a whole other world isn't it? You want to see the statistics?

As for installations, it's not really important that you do the work for a living, but have you ever done even one installation?

You design systems and recommend equipment. You tell your customers that radiant heating systems are not complicated and anyone can do it. Answer this Robert. Is stapling up tubing no different from understanding combustion and venting? Is proper GPM through a circuit the same as CAZ depressurization?

Are you 100% certain that NO legionella will EVER form in one of your designed systems?

Again, why would you bother speaking to the "little people"?

Mark H



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Mark Eatherton1

Everyone....

Do the world a favor and let this thread die an early death... He WANTS provocation. Don't let him have it. People are smart enough to see through him. If not, they deserve to get what they DIDN'T pay for, which is professional design and installation.

Every dog has their day.

'Nuff said.

ME

Robert O'Connor_7

SAME POST DIFFERENT THREAD!

Isn't this the exact post you made on a different thread? I can't speak for others but, I personally have never, and will never lose work to your company. If anything, I'll be fixing or ripping out these inherently dangerous systems and profiting from it. Sadly though, this is NOT how I'd like to make money. Am I fearful? Yes I am! I'm fearful that if you don't stop hawking your wares, somebodys gonna get sick, or worse. Ignorant? Yes I am! I haven't been shown the data you say you posses about your break through, award winning, super savings, high flying, smoke & mirror sideshow. I'm ignorant because I don't understand. PLEASE! SHOW THE CALCULATIONS!!! SO THAT I MIGHT. You say that your providing documentation? WHERE?? Is it home? Did you leave it in your car? It certinly isn't posted here. As for the DOE & the ICC, when was this that they gave you specific permission? DATES & DOCUMENTS PLEASE. Cooling with water has been around for centuries. Safely cooling with water has been around since the late 40's. Please try to understand that if you can prove your case, I'll not only apoligize, I'll sell it too! I could make even more money, installing more pipe. If your gonna direct me to a different site, why not the site (From the DOE & the ICC) that shows these acomplishments......Robert O'Connor in NJ

Mark Hunt

But!!!!!!!!


I wanna' FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok.......

I'll stop now.

UNLESS HE STARTS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark H

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Robert Starr of Radiantec

professionalism?

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What a sad way to end these postings. What a way to advertise.

Mark Hunt

BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


Coming from you that's a compliment!!!!!!!

Thanks bobby!

Mark H

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

\"Most Efficient House in Vermont\"

It's your heating system in there and I'm asking BASIC questions. I would think you would be falling over yourself to show why this title was earned.

1) Is insulation installed underneath the gravel base under the slab?

2) Does the fluid from the solar system flow in the gravel base under the slab during the summer?

3) Was it the shell, the comfort system or both that earned this title?

Dave Yates (PAH)

The efficiency

is in how the building was constructed. The builder is the real deal in that story. You could darn near heat the place with waste heat from a flashlight!

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Tom Towne

Reply from actual Radiantec customer

Hello all

I have been reading some of the recent posts From Mr. Star as well as from guys here on the wall with great interest. My name is Tom Towne and I purchaced a kit from Radiantec last fall. While I am mildly satisfied with it at this point it did not go without incident or I likely would never have found this website.

I have 800 ft of 7/8 tubing, 16 O.C. with extra plates ordered so plates are run full length. I completed the instalation for the kit as specified by Radiantec. The documentation provided included a calculation for btu produced at 37,500. The contractor estimated the actual btu produced to be around 14,000.

The heat loss at design temp of -15 was calculated at 39,000 by a blower door test done by the contractor.

Had I known the system would only produce 14,000 btu from the start I would have ordered 5/8 hose and ran it 8in O.C.

Does the system work well for moderate temps 20 and up? yes!
Does the system work well for temperatures below 15deg? No!
Am I totally unsatisfied with the system? No!
Did I need to hire a contractor to come in and finish the project? Yes, for an extra $1500.
Am I unhappy with the service and inflated BTU estimate? yes
Will I file a complanit with BBB? no

I will also need to purchace a boiler after all because the legoinella issue has me very woried now. I have to thank the guys here on the wall because they were there to help when I needed it.

My guess is that certainly not all but several customers of Radiantec will have similar issues with 16 OC/ 7/8 systems.

As for Radiantec, I believe they could be a very good company and likely will have to change the way they do things in the future to keep happy customers.

Tom Towne

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Patience Dave...

nm

Dave Yates (PAH)

Steady as she goes fellows

don't get stuck in the quagmire! One train wreck per thread is enough.

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Tom Towne

Reply from actual Radiantec customer

Hello all

I have been reading some of the recent posts From Mr. Star as well as from guys here on the wall with great interest. My name is Tom Towne and I purchaced a kit from Radiantec last fall. While I am mildly satisfied with it at this point it did not go without incident or I likely would never have found this website.

I have 800 ft of 7/8 tubing, 16 O.C. with extra plates ordered so plates are run full length. I completed the instalation for the kit as specified by Radiantec. The documentation provided included a calculation for btu produced at 37,500. The contractor estimated the actual btu produced to be around 14,000.

The heat loss at design temp of -15 was calculated at 39,000 by a blower door test done by the contractor.

Had I known the system would only produce 14,000 btu from the start I would have ordered 5/8 hose and ran it 8in O.C.

Does the system work well for moderate temps 20 and up? yes!
Does the system work well for temperatures below 15deg? No!
Am I totally unsatisfied with the system? No!
Did I need to hire a contractor to come in and finish the project? Yes, for an extra $1500.
Am I unhappy with the service and inflated BTU estimate? yes
Will I file a complanit with BBB? no

I will also need to purchace a boiler after all because the legoinella issue has me very worried now. I have to thank the guys here on the wall because they were there to help when I needed it.

My guess is that certainly not all but several customers of Radiantec will have similar issues with 16 OC/ 7/8 systems in certain applications.

As for Radiantec, I believe they could be a very good company and likely will have to change the way they do things in the future to have a good reputation. I will say this, Just because BBB is not involved does not always mean customers are satisfied! Most people don't have time!

Tom Towne

Dave Yates (PAH)

a boiler

may or may not be right for your application - the heating contractor you've used can make that determination. A heat exchanger piped up properly might be all that's needed.

I've seen many posts like yours here on this site and never yet seen one go begging for reasoned help.

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Steve Whitbeck

RSTARR

Robert - Why don't you respond to TOM TOWNE.
He has one of your systems and it is not working properly.
All I see you doing is bad mouthing QUALIFIED HVAC installers and not tring to fix the system that YOU sold to one of your customers.

Weezbo

i have been watching this Disscusion.

There seems to be a large degree of variation in the perspective ... it sounds as though Robert is saying well...Its The Deal!. quite a few others , my self included ,are saying there are some minor technicalities that may be being over looked in The Deal! in China There is a saying 'expensive is expensive buh Cheap Cheap is Not Cheap...'
remidial work is often well over three times the costs of the original expenditures....operational and maint costs also need to be considered in the equasion of just how much of a Deal someone may be getting.
I am a bit of a natural cynic to be sure however ...I too have to accept that a 4 way motorized mixer is going to have some rather hefty price tag going into the job,as are certain specific controls,plate exchangers back flow preventors and the pieces once paid for need to be treated with a certain level of care.a tekmar control that just ratteled its way 150 miles up some gravel road isnt going to be 'Fresh' lets say.
all these pieces though, flying in right formation , off a boiler produces a product that You can say will do this or that with in these parameters. the operational costs will be such and such. here is a maint schedule and here is the best person in your neighbourhood to deal with an emergency call or any concerns you might have.
it would be sad day for someone to die over an installation... as mechanical and plumbing contractors we have a onus or duty to see that the publics health and lives arent put in jepordy ...hence Spillproff pressure vacum breakers and a host of "spendy devises".
Home owners could possibly do the same with direction, however some caution needs to be addressed.1 home owner with a new Hammer and Large wrench may not even have the correct tools at his or her immediate disposal.Just the Hint that something may cause health concerns should at least weigh in on the side of Caution.!

Heatermon

Thank you Tom

For taking the time to write about your experience with Radaintec. As an installing contractor, I would like to ask a few follow up questions about your experiences. It's projects like yours that we we contractors need to have a better understanding of so that we can sucessfully overcome the "sales pitch" that these "mail order" companies generate.

Question #1: Did you go with Radiantec because there was no contracor or supply house available to you locally?

2. Were you planing on "doing it yourself" from the get go?

3. Was the installation a pleasant experience to you at the time or was it harder and more complicated than you thought?

4. Did you have any issues come up during installation that you had to resolve before continuing and were those issues easily resoved?

5. Where did price come into your purchasing decision?
A. Were the contractors bidding on the job too high? B. Was the advertised "low cost" from radiantec a welcome relief?

4. Would you have eliminated radiant from your project if you would have had to pay a contractor to put it in?

5. If you had to rebuild your project today, would you buy your materials from a "mail order" company again? would the company be Radiantec or a different company?

6. What would you suggest us "installing contractors" do differently to win your projects in the future?

Thank you again for your time, I bet your answers will surprise alot of my colleague's here and I look forward to your observations myself.


Heatermon

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Floyd_5

Please......

just show us some numbers......
Most of the people you are selling to don't care and don't give a hoot, and probably don't know who the BBB is. But hey, it looks good on the web site.
I did take the time to read the stuff on your web site...included the disclaimer at the end of each little spiel you put up there.....

Just be honest... your goal is to make money....and if you can make money by being a bit shady and stretching the truth, then you will take your chances....

There was a post awhile back about snake oil sales....I think it fits here....your not an internet or dotcom co.????
UHHHHH......what else would you be????? I wish that I could hide behind the keyboard and sell my wares also.....have actually thought of doing so... but I have some morals and standards that would not allow me to sell my wares in such a fashion as to ever compete with the likes of you.

I feel much better selling great systems to my friends and neighbor's..... I do NO advertisng and don't even have my name on my truck....good old word of mouth advertising....
do you actually track how many people are referred to your site???? If so I would love to see the numbers.....

You pose no threat to me.... but I am very upset by your calloused approach to sales and the fact that you apparently show no regard for the health and wellfare of the people that you are supposedly trying to help.....those that maybe can't afford the top 'o the line systems that many here love to sell......just because they can't aford to have a "safe" system, they will settle unsepectingly for a system that will "do the job"........but kill them or burn their house down. Will that ever get back to you???? probably not.....

There's more than enough work out there for me... I cannot and will not lower my standards... I can install high quality, eff., safe systems, and I can show pictures and give the numbers to prove my claims.....

We are still waiting for yours.......

Floyd

Murph'_5

From where I am sitting.........

I see alot of free advertising going on, most everyone else that cost quite a bit of ching !!! Very rarely do I see others hawking thier wares here ,me thinks ME is right! hooked and set!!



Murph' (SOS)



(brick anyone?)

Floyd_5

Hey, Murph....

I thought you was the Sheriff when the Man was away????

hvacsale

Saw this reading the morning 'mail

Robert,

Just for the sake of discussion, let's suppose that your open loop radiant system has enough fresh water movement to prevent bacteria buildup in the tubing.

When installed to your specifications.



Problem...... The people actually doing the work are NOT professionals. Most often they are like the big box store customers and just want to save money, and like them, often get in over their heads.

I have personally seen jobs where the piping is not done according to the 1-page layout the customer got from Radiantec. This resulted in an open loop system that had NO FLOW and was a breeding ground waiting to happen. Someone has to know what they are doing in a heating project and you are the only person or company that the customer is talking to that means YOU are supposed to be the professional!

What measures does your company take to ensure that the install you think is happening actually gets done?

Oh yes, in the medical profession, isn't prescription without diagnosis called malpractise???? I heard they sue people for stuff like that.

B2C

A happy customer

  About 10 years ago, Radiantec designed a direct system for the 2500 sqft. home I was building in Colorado. At the time they indicated that the great room would need auxiliary heat  in sub-zero weather due to the glazing vs. floor area. Their plan was approved by the energy engineer and the building dept.



  I am not a professional HVAC installer, but have a mechanical background and have spent a lot of volunteer time with Habitat\, so am not going to get into any discussions with any responding professionals. As a matter of fact, after I make this post, I'll likely never visit this site again.



  I installed per their instructions, the system has worked great, and they were right, in subzero weather I need to use the Northstar wood burner to keep the great room above 66 degrees.



  I'd suggest everyone relax and try working out the problem, rather than proving who is wrong.