Lawyers,Guns and Money! MK

Mike Kraft_2

I'm looking at a job.Rumor has it that the home is one of the oldest in town(early 19th century).No one is occupying the home.It has been under renovation contract for over one year.I have been beckoned from a GC who the HO has called due to unsatisfactory results from the contractors that are working there now.Thats the history:)

Now for some meat(grrrrrrrrrr)!The heat emitters are all tube type CI rads.The distribution was gravity.Unfortunately someone deemed it inadequate for some reason.So it suffered a fate of hammers and sawzalls:( The rads were then stripped,painted and bushed(tappings were all bushed for3/4").The old boiler was scrapped.....flavor unknown.A new Nat gas Slant Fin model was installed.Not sure of the line but the IBR rating is 88K and it is an atmospheric venting appliance.The chimney is original,chased through the inside of the home,constructed with bricks and mortar.The heating contractor piped the rads in series loop!The boiler has no bypass.the chimney was condensing baddly.The assumption was a leaking flashing.

The plumbing rough aint much better.I am meeting the HO's later this week.The P&H contractor has a balance due,which the HO's are now holding back.Cuz a whut I showed the new GC!I am entering a position that does'nt really thrill me but want the work.Nice job.More work coming from them and they own a second home in town.

My question is do I need to involve others in the profession to ie: manufacturer....... CMA?I did not see any paperwork around for the new boiler.Do not know if thermal/condensing issues are covered in the instructions.Or should I just bone up and give my reasons why and write a detailed proposal?

Thanks ............cheese

eleft(retired)_5

Small Towns

I think I'd rather go with Guns and Money, Lawyers complicate things.

Cheese,

Face it ....it is what its. I know you are aware of the problem and can correct it.

As for the relationship of the HO & GC I would be careful.

They are the bookends and you are the book!

al

Dave Yates (PAH)

avoid the middle!

We're trying to walk that fine line too on a radiant installation that we've been asked to redo. It's a mighty uncomfortable spot being caught between all the finger pointing & we've stated - in writing - that we are not interested in being dragged in for testifying in court if they all end up suing each other.

On the other hand, if they want to hire us to build a system that works, I'm all ears.

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Aidan (UK)

Question

"the chimney was condensing baddly.The assumption was a leaking flashing."

Would the condensation soak the internal walls of the house, or cause damp patches?

TIA

Mike Kraft_2

Aidian

> "the chimney was condensing baddly.The assumption

> was a leaking flashing."

>

> Would the

> condensation soak the internal walls of the

> house, or cause damp patches?

>

> TIA



The chimney is brick and mortar.No flue liner at all.It is a near 200 year old chimney.The condensate is quite evident on the "bare brick and mortar".And yes the plaster and lathe wicked throughout the exterior of the finish.The walls were not dimensional as a partition would be but rather the lathe was secured to the masonary and plastered over.The chimney inside dimension is approximately 10"sq.Ther height is approximately 35'.An educated guess would be that a 5" SS liner would suffice.Aluminum is acceptable with NAT gas but going through the motion,investment and permenance I always reccomend stainless.The other point is who knows how many different fuels that chimney has been exposed to over the years.Point being aluminum is a bit more sensetive to acids then SS.

cheese

Mike Kraft_2

> "the chimney was condensing baddly.The assumption

> was a leaking flashing."

>

> Would the

> condensation soak the internal walls of the

> house, or cause damp patches?

>

> TIA

Mike Kraft_2

Aidan...........

The walls are not...............uhhhhh melting:)The chimney has mason lathe nailed to it with finished plaster and paint.The condensate is coming through these finishes.

cheese

Mad Dog

I'm with you Al,

and I agree with PAH too. When we get involved in something like that we always stipulate - in writing - that WE WILL NOT be subpoened, et cetera. Mad dog

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Aidan (UK)

Thanks, Cheese

I was asked about a chimney with a persistent damp problem soem months back. Everyone had assumed it was defective flashing. I assumed the chimney stack was redundant (most are), but didn't know for certain. I hadn't realised boiler condensation could cause such damp problems, but should have known from the quantities of water vapour involved.

heatboy

I probably.............

would recommend getting the original contractor involved first. It's a small town, Cheese and you are going to see this guy around. It's really up to you whether he perceives you as a professional or a ****. Since you have seen the project, contact him (original contractor) and tell him you are involved with this and that you would like to help him straighten things out. It sounds like he is in over his head and maybe, just maybe, he would be grateful for your help. You'll never know if you don't ask. If he acts like an idiot with you, you can then repair the system, make the money and not be concerned what the original contractor will say.

That being said, he could become a steady revenue stream for you until he goes out of business!

hb

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George Peteya

Slant/Fin Boiler

Mike -

First of all, hope all's well with you. My guess is that the S/F boiler is a Sentry S-120. That boiler has a Net I=B=R Rating of 88 MBH. If you need a manual, let me know and I'll send you one, or download it from slantfin.com, or if you have Hydronic Explorer, like the Prego sauce, "It's in there."

Vinnie Smedick

Mad Dog,

Just because you write canot be subpoened does that hold up? Last man in isn't that how the saying goes?

Glen

Report your findings and observations accurately, put it in writing with zero bias, offer an opinion as to why you would fix it. Tell them it will xxx $$$ for a full blown heat analysis and estimate. If your home town is really small - contractor number one will hear about your proposal in short order. If your proposal doesn't win you this job - your professionalism will remain with the GC for a long time. Remember that people pay us to play with water! :-)

scrook_2

it depends...

if they're *your* lawyers then they can complicate someone else's life, if not... well there's still the "guns and money!" I always liked that song, it paints such a colorful image!

ScottMP

The Cheese has hit the fan

Mike, I also live in a small town and had the same type of experience. Not shoddy work, but my competitor could'nt show up enough and the customer called us. After talking to the HO I went to the other contractor and let him know what was going on. I was called about two weeks later to start working.

I feel better about the job and do not have to worry about bad feelings around town.

Keep the lawyer at the bottom of the ocean with the other 4,999.00 .

Scott

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ScottMP

David

I think you meant "Cheesehead" ?

Mikes the "Cheese"

I am the "Chowda"

Cheesy chowda means the milk is bad

Scott Milne


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