Riello BF5 Setup for combustion air application

psd_3

I have a Buderus G115-34 equipped with a Riello BF5. The BF5 is being used to provide combustion air but is being vented through a standard SS lined 30' chimney with a really good draft. I am experiencing rough starting when the boiler is warm. There is a lot of pulsating and the flue damper swings open and closed and I get a real sooty smell in the basement and the burner will actually loose flame on occasion and then will retry. The literature provided with the BF5 states that it is factory configured with settings (nozzle type, air opening, turbulator settings) for direct venting.

Question - how should the BF5 be configured in a standard chimney configuration where it is only being used to provide makeup air, but not being used in a direct vent application?
Are the standard factory settings correct for this application, or should it be set up more equivalent to the Riello F5?

Big Ed

Settings

The burner call for in a G115/34 is a F3 , check third down. This sheet came with a BF burner set up for a Buderus.... What is odd I thought a Riello F3 only went up to a .75 nozzle...Maybe a typo? not sure...With the direct vent on the bottom they call for a BF5..

I would try since you have a chimney..... set the turbulator to the normal 2.0 , use a .85 60* S or SS. Leave or set the pump to 180# . Make sure the electrodes at set correctly . Set the air gate to 3.5 , then adjust with a smoke test until you reach a #0. Too far out of range with the air or a low co2 then increase turbulator setting and start testing again...

I have not been impressed with the BF-Buderus setting that are posted so far . The fire is kinda blah ! We had to use a SS in a G115-28 direct vent to bring down the CO.. And found sucess in useing a 60* when called for a 80* tighten up the loose fires. The F burners set up for the Buderus is pop it in, check the reading, perfect! I like ..

Hope this Helps

Firedragon_4

The Riello is not at it's best when firing

at high draft conditions, FACT!

You may need to add a Neutral Point Pressure Adjuster and that is described in both our Riello Handbook (2nd Edition) and Combustion & Oil Burning Equipment. Contact me if you just want the instructions for the Adjuster.

The books are at http://FiredragonEnt.com

eleft(retired)_5

psd... check C on big ED's scan (then check draft.)

Earthfire

barometric

sounds to me like your backdrafting thru the damper into the basement,and the burner is trying to owercome the downdraft.Get makeup air into the house for the bathroom exhaust fans, dryer, kitchen hood, central vacumn, fireplaces, and an other air moving(exhausting) appliances.
With direct vent a barometric damper is not used. Using a chimney as the vent does not, in my opinion, change the basic system setup, I would remove the barimetric and run a solid well sealed pipe from the boiler to the chimney and set the burner up with a combustion tester.

[Deleted User]

Just talked to

a Riello Techie this week about your problem. His suggestion is to slide that firing assy forward. Lets more air slide around the turbulator, rather than keeping all that static pressure @ the point where the excess draft is doing its thing. Not something to do w/o combustion test instruments.

psd_3

Re: Draft regulator

There is a Field Controls "Type R-C calibrated draft regulator" installed in the vertical flue connection going to the chimney. The technician measured all the parameters including draft multiple times with both electronic and standard barometric testers and said the measurements were all right on. I recall him saying the draft was between .02 and .03 (I assume that's minus!).

I'm just wondering whether a BF5 when set up for direct venting with the standard Buderus recommended direct vent settings can properly handle this sort of draft?

psd_3

Re: Settings

Big Ed,

Thanks, I have a copy of this sheet and also think there's a typo ... as an F3 is not specified for use with a G115-34 and does not handle a .85 nozzle.

What is the significance of the "*" under the notes

" * - Reverse air flow turbulator disk"

Does this mean the BF5 uses a different part than the F5, or that the disk is physical reversed in direction? How significant is this?

Thanks again -

kevin coppinger_4

I am not an oil burner guy....

but I thought that the barometric w/ a riello & a Buderus was a NO-NO...kpcI have a 115-21 w/ an F3 no barometric draft control...lites off great. kpc

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psd_3

re: barometric

Kevin,

Are you using an F3 or a BF3?
Chimney venting or direct venting?
The Riello notes for Buderus (see Big Ed's post)indicate that a draft regulator is required for chimney vent applications. I have a question in to Buderus regarding burner settings and draft control requirements for the BF5 when used with chimney.

kevin coppinger_4

It's an F3. and a chimney..

as I said...I'm not an oil burner guy,I have someone else set up my installs ...I have yet to come across a riello guy who wants one in on a buderus set up. The first thing they say is "take it out or plug it." In the case of a Carlin ez no problem, it stays. Another boiler manufact. Smith does not want a barometric in their 8series, period, regardless of the burner. In both these cases I thought they were pressure fired boilers, and therefore a barometric draft control was not required...???? kpc

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psd_3

Re: Just talked to ...

Based on Riello's suggestion, this was the first thing the technician tried. However, it did not cure the problem. Poor starting and then continuous pulsations while running occur in about 1 out of 5 starts, sometimes so bad it looses flame and then must retry.

Firedragon_4

Over on www.oiltechtalk.com they're talking about

some bad pump stems, hmmmmmmm????????

Robert O'Connor_3

Riello BF5 Settings

Big Ed,

After much tweaking the techs landed very close to your recommendation. They had a really hard time getting there because they wanted to stay with the Buderus/Riello recommended pump pressure of 145 psi. Ran ok when warm (with some flame instability and hence rumble) but ignition kept cutting in and out when cold. Increasing the pump pressure to ~170 psi smoothed things out and also started well when cold. They are still fighting an occasional hard start (slight delayed ignition) but things are improved. The last tech involved said he's seen this issue multiple times and invariably increasing the pump pressure greatly improves the starting and running performance.

Turbulator ~1.5
Air gate ~4.5
Nozzle Delevan .85 60* B
Pump Pressure ~170 psi

CO2 @ 13% with 0 smoke
CO @ 19ppm

Any idea why Buderus/Riello are still specing a pump pressure of 145 psi when the resulting performance is not very good?