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Peerless Pinnacle

Masterplumb_6
Masterplumb_6 Member Posts: 1
in THE MAIN WALL
Is Anyone out there using them? I'm thinking of putting one in my home. I was told theyre made by the same manufacturer as the Munchkin, and I know you guys are high on them. I'm looking for pros and cons to this boiler. Im going to install 2 zones for radiators, 2 radiant, and an indirect. Thanks in advance. Chris

Comments

  • Al_3
    Al_3 Member Posts: 79
    pinnacle

    Iam assuming they are the same as the munchkin, the only issue I had, was Make sure if you are using the vision kit you follow the vision piping diagram not the diagram that comes with the boiler.I think HTP should put a little notation in their boiler lit that states that if you use the vision kit be sure to follow the piping diagram included in the kit, otherwise the indirect piping will be incorrect. A whole lot easier to pipe right the first time than repiping later. Other than that I have installed 4 of them in the past few months and think they are awesome, plan to install one in our new shop, good luck--AL
  • Paul Mitchell
    Paul Mitchell Member Posts: 266
    Al

    From what I have heard they are a broken down version of the munchkin with less features.

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  • Paul Rohrs
    Paul Rohrs Member Posts: 357
    Peerless Pinnacle

    HTP makes the Pinnacle for Peerless. Peerless chose only to have the ASME model. The vision control is proprietary to the Munchkin side of the house. (Not available on the Pinnacle)

    Tekmar now offers the 265 control which can control three modulating boilers or two boilers and DHW. Dynamite package on bigger jobs. Peerless is still only offering the 80, 140, and 199 models. Rumor control says the 399 will be available soon. No word on the 50 that is available from Munchkin.

    Quality control is in place, I honestly (honestly) have not even needed to call my tech people. Read the instructions. Primary pump should be placed on the Inlet side of the boiler, have a qualified electrician wire it. Adjust ppm of CO. Listen to it purr......

    my 2 cents.

    Regards,

    PR

    Oh yeah, Pinnacle looks pretty darn good in my warehouse (properly stocked based on lead times) compared to no Munchkins that my "competition" is out of stock on. Seriously, 4-6 week lead time +.

  • 1_2
    1_2 Member Posts: 1
    1

    1
  • R. Kalia
    R. Kalia Member Posts: 349
    Tekmar 263

    Apparently there is soon going to be a Tekmar 263, which is like the 265 but only controls one boiler. The 263+Pinnacle combo should be about as good as the Munchkin+925+Vision combo.
  • Alan Bright
    Alan Bright Member Posts: 17
    Pinnacle and Munchkin....

    Guys you might check out www. boilerstands.com
    We have used this quality product in several installations.
    Boiler on top, off of floor easy installation, buffer tank
    expansion tank etc. underneath. Can be used for garages, shops etc. beats a housekeeping pad!



    Boiler underneath, indirect on top, clean & neat installation, 30" x 30" footprint, a SS-60 still fits easily with 8' ceiling. If it makes it quicker, easier, neater, silver gray powder coat looks great with HTP products, (far less cost than to pay one of my people to make something like this, even if they could, paint can't
    equal the finish, besides my people should be out in the field, far more +$$$) MORE PROFESSIONAL for us, it's all
    good.

    Regards
    AB
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    Is this control

    going to be able to change the set point and modulate the burner around the moving set point?

    If not, it's just another outdoor reset controller IMHO

    ME
  • R. Kalia
    R. Kalia Member Posts: 349
    263/265

    You can read about the 265 on Tekmar's web pages, which contain PDF versions of all documentation. The 263 will be, according to the person I talked to at Tekmar, the same except able to control only one modulating boiler, for domestic applications.

    It is certainly an outdoor reset controller. The problem as I understand it is that, if you add a regular outdoor reset controller (e.g. Tekmar 256) to a modulating boiler, you have to bypass the boiler's own control logic, so it no longer modulates. The 263 will take over the job of the internal board, plus add reset. That's what I was told, anyway.
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    Hmmm...

    Having been exposed to the 925 control used onbard the Munchkin, I find it hard to believe that anyone could improve on the 925s performance. Color me skeptical green if you will. I've seen Viessman and the 925, and I know what is involved in interfacing the two.

    I know Steffan Kneuver is a very bright and intelligent person. I just find it hard to believe that he'd have the necessary molex plugs to make this system work like a charm.

    We shall see what we shall see...

    ME
  • R. Kalia
    R. Kalia Member Posts: 349
    \"molex plugs\"

    > I've seen Viessman and the 925, and I know

    > what is involved in interfacing the two.


    I didn't know you could use the 925 on a non-Munchkin boiler.

    > I just find it hard to

    > believe that he'd have the necessary molex plugs

    > to make this system work like a charm.


    I was also told that "We are working with Peerless and other modulating boiler manufacturers to produce standard connecting cables".

    All this is just hearsay, of course. It may not be true or the project could get cancelled/postponed.
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    ooppps...

    slight misunderstanding there. The Vie$$mann doesn't and can't use the 925 controller. I must have skipped a comma, somewhere.

    What I was trying to say was that I have had experience with the Vie$$man controls and the Munchkin controls, and think it would be hard to make an easy interface. But Steffan has amazed me before. I just still don't understand why they have yet to bring out a variable speed pump controller that would work on either delta Tea or delta P...

    BTW, for the newbys, delta P comes from drinking too much delta tea:-)

    ME
  • Rich Dickinson The Plumbing Shoppe
    Rich Dickinson The Plumbing Shoppe Member Posts: 3
    Munchkin boilers and disimilar metals in closed system piping

    New Mexico State mechanical inspector requires dielectric
    unions, brass nipple & copper female adapter vs copper mip
    to connect cast air eliminator ftg., on closed circulating hydronic system or letter from manufacture stating it is not required. Insp. states that boiler feeder & backflow preventer connected makes it not a closed system. What is your opinion?
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    My personal opinion...

    is that your State inspector doesn't understand what he is looking at. The fact that it has a connection to potable water doesn't mean that it is continuously taking on fresh, oxygenated water.

    I've been doing this now for 30 years, and I've NEVER had an inspector tell me I had to have dielectric unions or brass nipples on my heating systems.

    I think your state inspectors got burned by a rubber hose that purportedly had an oxygen barrier on it, when in reality it didn't. The lack of oxygen barier allowed TONS of oxygen to come into the fluid and bombard disimilar metal mixes, causing oxygen corrosion and electrolysis.

    This is the same department that no longer allows you to hang an expansion tank from the air scoop correct?

    They did that for the same reason. On systems using rubber hose without an oxygen barrier, the steel expansion tank is the first component to have its lunch eaten by the oxygen. It fails, falls off and causes water loss, and sometime major water damage. So, instead of addressing the oxygen barrier issue, they found it convenient to ban expansion tanks from being hung off of the fitting that was designed for it to be hung from! The tank could be hung from the moon, and it will still eventually fail due to oxygen attack...

    I don't envy you for having to work under those conditions, but we too have our own crosses to bear here in Colorado. Fortunately, our inspector know how to consider reason.

    It has been my experience that on jobs where the contractor did use dielectric unions, that the unions eventually start leaking and cause more problems than they would have avoided in the first place.

    Your gubbernmint inaction...

    ME
  • masterplumb_7
    masterplumb_7 Member Posts: 1
    So I guess

    you guys dont care for the Pinnacle? Chris
  • Mark Eatherton1
    Mark Eatherton1 Member Posts: 2,542
    Given an option..

    I'd go with the Munchkin. You can apply the Vision 1 control to the Munchkin. You can't apply it to the Pinnacle.

    The Vision one control changes the set point of the boiler based on program parameters that you put into the controller and reset conditions. The boiler modulates around this changing set point, as opposed to modulating around a fixed set point on the Pinnacle. Other than that, and the A.S.M.E. rating, they are identical units.

    Does any one know what A.S.M.E. stands for? One of my students told me it stood for "A Substantial Monetary Exchange"... I think Tony Connor said it best when he said it stands for "Always, Sometimes, Maybe, EXCEPT!"

    Ok, I'll keep my day job...

    ME
  • Floyd_5
    Floyd_5 Member Posts: 418
    Mark, I thnk...

    The Tekmar 265 modulates aroung a moving setpoint. If I get your dift..... the system that I installed with the 25 and two Ultra boilers will move the "target temp." based on the outdoor temp., supply temp., return temp., and occupied t-stat temp. This system is totally radiant and on a design day of 0* it will run @ 125* target, then say on a 40* day it will be trying to attain a target of 85-90.... the other advantage that it gives is that the modulating boilers are running most of the time in their "sweet spot" or below 50% modulation, therefore attaining a higher eff. most of the time. Add to that, boiler rotation and you got a very nice system.
    What is needed to interface the Tekmar to the Ultra's is a module that tells the Ultra what to do. The Tekmar gives a 0-10VDC output that the module interpets to the Ultra computer.
    It would seem to me that the interfaces would be realatvely easy to design. The Tekmar output is actually a 0-20ma or 4-20ma signal, that is converted to DC by a resistor.
    Actually I have the first setup, (so I have been told) that was done in the field. Hounded Tekmar and WM till they let me try it. :-)

    So far it is working great, someday I'll get caught up a bit and post some pics and give some numbers. So far the numbers are astounding!!!

    Wirsbo, WM, and Tekmar,....what a combo!!!

    Floyd
  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    What's the temperature

    limit on a dielectric union. Seems the plastic insulator rings get crunchy after a while on water heaters operating at 140°! Wonder what 180° or more would do.

    Also keep the glycol away from any galvanized fittings :)

    I don't see a place, or need for dielectrics in hydronic systems, if it's a closed loop system. Send the inspector to the CDA's (Copper Development Association) stacks of info on this subject :)

    Wonder if they would accept two flanges (brass/ iron) with a EPDM gasket between, and plastic sleeves around the bolts? I used to make dielectric flange sets this way for areas with over protective inspectors.

    hot rod

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