Meet Harry (ME)

Mark Eatherton

We installed this prototype hydrogen fuel cell at a local fire station here in Denver. Unfortunately, the installation had a fixed budget and we were limited to what we could do as it pertains to thermal utliization.

We are preheating the DHW for the fire station with the thermal output. The thermal output is 20,000 btuH, 24/7/365. The overall efficiency of the unit is based on full utilization of the thermal output capacity. I'd have love to have done some snowmelt, fan coil unit for the apparatus room, space heat augmentation etc. We would have proposed a LARGE insulated underground storage tank to store all them excess BTU's.

Oh well, better luck next time around...

This is another of one Matt Rossi's babies.

Gonna miss that boy:-(

ME

J.C.A._3

Mark,

I wish I knew the questions to ask, but I really don't.
The explanation of the fuel cell wasn't quite readable to these "older eyes".

I'll be going down to Brookhaven with Alan in May, and they're doing a study on "co-generation" using both natural gas and diesel. I'll ask Dr. Tom about the progress, and the particulars when I get there.Hope to be hearing some positive feedback.

Wish I knew more about the fuel cell technology. Do you have any pointers as to where to look? Thanks, Chris.

Dave Yates (PAH)

ME, I am

drooling all over my keyboard!

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Brad_7

Heat exchanger

Is there a liquid to ?? heat exchanger inside the unit? How hot and what form is the exhaust? Is it a trickle of hot or warm water, or steam, or steamy vapor in air?

Thanks

Cosmo_2

ditto to the drooling

I hope I don't cause a short!! I would love to learn more, and get my hands on one of those puppies....

Cosmo

Mark Eatherton1

Where to look...

http://www.plugpower.com/is/manufacturing.cfm

Also, put hydrogen fuel cell in a search window and see what comes back.

George W is trying to get a good chunk of money available to quicken and cheapen the process of making hydrogen.

That's about the ONLY thing he's doing FOR the environment...

ME

Mark Eatherton1

More info...

GE's in the game now too. This is why I'm not worried about the boilers I'm installing today to last more than 20 years. It ain't your grandpas Buick anymore...

http://www.gepower.com/prod_serv/products/fuel_cells/en/how_fuel_cells.htm

ME

Mark Eatherton1

Yes...

there is a heat exchanger in the cell. It's proprietary, and if I tell you, I'll have to.... never mind, you don't WANT to know:-)

In any case, you get output temperatures of around 180 degrees F. 20,000 btuH at 180 degree temepartures. Not much per hour, but it's continuous.

It's just another heat source to me...:-)

ME

Dave Yates (PAH)

A new dimension

in calculating thermal storage and the averaging of flywheel heat losses in a given 24 hour period for peak loading?

480,000 Btu's spread out over a 24-hour day ---- hummnnn, kinda makes the old brain cells want a bit of exercising. Bank that Btu content in thermal storage and make withdrawals as needed.

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Don Walsh

Limited access!

Don't get your skivvies in a knot just yet over this new technology. If I read the GE website correctly, THEY are going to do the installs and the servicing once it becomes available in the US. That seems to preclude any involvement by traditional HVAC contractors, unless we would be contracted to do some of the install work, and probably compensated only at a level GE determines. Won't make a hill of beans to me by then, but, perhaps some of the younger ones in our trade may have cause for concern. There is a steady growing trend towards creating a "labor only for hire" market in this country. Trane, Home Depot, Lowes, and now GE might plan to cut you out of that possibility too.
Now if someone would just design an auto-stoker for cow patties........

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Mark Eatherton1

Adds new meaning to the term...

buffer tank eh...

It means that you design your system for use with as low a temperature as possible. The lower the demand temp, the more btu's you can utilize out of the buffer tank.

Makes radiant heat SHINE like the sun:-)

ME

Mark Eatherton1

Gee...

G.E. is not the ONLY supplier of this technology. I'm sure they want to keep total control of the situation until they've had a chance to prove reliability, serviceability etc.

Hang loose. This technology is not going to pop up on the shelf of your local supplier in the next few years. But it will eventually happen, and when it does, if you've positioned yourself correctly, they will come to you for installation and service resources.

Just giving a glimpse of the future...

ME

Mark Hunt

I have a friend


that works for PlugPower here in New York. He asked me if we would be interested in installing these once they were ready for production.

Who knows when that will be?

BTW, several years ago I installed a WM-988 in the PlugPower building. Looked great until the plumbers used it for a scaffold! GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Mark H

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Earthfire

radiant mfg.

should have done that from the gitgo in my opinion. Would have had more control and accountability and fewer internet pipe peddlers. Is it too late to put the GENNIE back in the bottle.

Unknown

Plug Power's CoGen unit,,, NICE

Just wait till you all see the one UTC Fuel Cells is working on. Sure glad to see these things start to gain some attention here in North America.

Pay attention folks. The heat source of the future is at hand.

Gary

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jerry scharf

waiting a few years

ME,

I'm glad to see you working on one of these. Could you put up occasional updates on how it's working and what issues have come up?

This is high on my future plans, but I'm waiting a few years. All of the current fuel cells are vulnerable to sulfur and the PEM style are also vulnerable to CO, so I want to see how they hold up before I put one in. I like the solid oxide ones better in principal, but we have to see what ends up being successful in the field.

thanks,
jerry

PJB_4

How do you prepare yourself for the revolution?

Mark,

Who is your contact at Plug Power? Is this their latest PEM membrane unit?

You say to position yourself when they become available. How will we know when there is a demand for this technology.

I just read Gary Wallace's letter in Supply House Times that Europen Mfg's like Viessmann are working on this technology for the replacment market. Any word on who the major players will be?

Phill

Unknown

ME,,, Who is Matt Rossi?

I am soooooo jealous. ME thinks you have reached the pinnacle of heating technology:-) Please tell us more.

Gary

*To catch up with me in real time, use AOL's Instant Messanger. My user name is: Radiantfloors
Add me to your buddy list. I've got a bunch of Wallies on my list.

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Unknown

Please share more with us.

Mark,

I'm dying to hear everything about your experience with Plug's latest production unit.

Your thoughts? E.mail me.

Gary

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Unknown

Mark, I'm still waiting for the data;-)

Sounds like one of those loooooooonng term projects that the electrical utilities love to have meetings over.

Wondering what the cost for 20,000 Btus of power is?

Gary

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Mark Eatherton1

Gary,

We did the installation. We're not responsible for recording and interpolating the data. I will attempt to get more data, but anytime the utility is involved, things go slowly.

ME