esbe valve

Rudy

Here's my application: I'm looking to install a Termovar valve after a plate exchanger to give a constant 170 to 180 temp to a parralel p/s setup ,( heat exchanger - stage 1/oil boiler - stage 2, feeding a primary loop). The exchanger is seperating an open from a closed loop. A couple of questions: I'm thinking that the Termovar will allow the rise of the exchanger to quicken allowing hotter if not design temp to the system . The trade off that I see is that the valve could modulate frequently depending on zone requirements. If modulation is not a concern then the only trade off would be a slightly slower system response. I've looked at storage tanks etc... but at this point we are looking at using a brazed plate. Just looking at making it work by delivering design temp water to the system and working with low return temps from the system (almost like an instantaneous heater). Am I off base? Thanks - Matt

Rudy

esbe valve

Just wondered if anybody read my post. I'm curious to hear some remarks. It seems like it would work but I am looking for some backup or opposition!

Rudy

ESBE VALVE

again!

[Deleted User]

i haven't used them,

but i believe ''boilerpro'' has..see if you can find one of his postes and e-mail him your esbe question..

hr

Not sure I follow

Are you trying to have the B side maintain 170-180? If so what temperature do you have on the A side to get there.

Need to know the flow rates, also. Those 3 way mixers work by reducing flow rate. Would this matter for your application?

An injection mix would be another temperature mixer option, that would not be flow sensitive. The Grundfos Mixi Miser, and many other VS mix controls have a setpoint position that would watch the discharge temperature and modulate accordingly. They are incrediably accurate within a few degrees.

hot rod

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Rudy

esbe valve

Thanks Gerry - I'll try to look him up. I think my idea makes sense, just looking for some thoughts.

Rudy

hot rod

A-side would be 190 degrees on an open system. To get my B side to 180 output I would need a 160 B - side input. So... instead of taking 120 degree return temps into the heat exchanger and supplying 140 degrees my thought was why not put in a 162 degree Termovar and I would get 180 to the system. I am looking at keeping the setup simple and cost effective as we would use this extensively if it works. I could do an injection setup and actually have looked at that but simplicity is the name of the game in this application. By the way, I could just put the heat exchanger in and forget about this setup - it's still going to give a 20 degree B-side rise anyway. I'm just experimenting with my thoughts. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Termovar will reduce flow rates to the heat exchanger initially then proportionally increase flow in time with system temp rise. Am I blowing smoke?

hr

I think

I follow. 190° at the open "A" side of the HX, and you want 180° supply at the "B" side.

If so you need what is sometimes called a "close approch" sizing method. Page 17 of the Flate Plate catalog describes this as temperatures of 10° or less.

It generally requires a much larger HX (more plates). For a 113,000 BTU/ hour load. At 10° approch (190° in 180° out) it would require a 5X12-36, according to my calcs. Again flow rates need to be known. That get to be a fairly expensive HX. I'd guess in excess of 500 bucks!

hot rod

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Rudy

Hot Rod

Yeah, you got it. I actually have talked to our flatplate distributor who sized me one for a close approach setup. He priced it at about 750 dollars. That's ok and might be the way I go. But, I am just figuring out how I can use a standard 20 degree delta t to make a standard exchanger work. READ - less $$$! I really don't need to use the valve - just contemplating it. Actually the setup is an outdoor furnace tapping in to the existing closed loop via parralel primary secondary. My plan is to use the heat exchanger as my first stage and install a strap on aquastat to the exchanger primary input. The aquastat would disable the oil above 160 degrees and enable the oil below 160 degrees. likewise the stat would disable the exchanger pump below 160 degrees. The oil would not short cycle because the outdoor unit rarely drops below 160 even at design low temp conditions. Sound OK?! Actually the heat exchanger probably will deliver much quicker recovery than the oil boiler. Load is 180,000 btuh
Matt

hr

No free lunch

I'm not sure you can "trick" a HX that way. You may be able to use severtal smaller HX's. Better get to a more knowledgable HX fellow to get that answer.

Robert Bean had an interesting article on Hx's years ago in the Radiant Panel Report. It used the Holohan Flow Train to explain the concept. Looks like the Holohan Zephyr Although not exactly what you are trying. Maybe contact him or FP for some HX magic.

hot rod

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Rudy

Thanks

> I'm not sure you can "trick" a HX that way. You

> may be able to use severtal smaller HX's. Better

> get to a more knowledgable HX fellow to get that

> answer.

>

> Robert Bean had an interesting article

> on Hx's years ago in the Radiant Panel Report.

> It used the Holohan Flow Train to explain the

> concept. Looks like the Holohan Zephyr

> Although not exactly what you are trying. Maybe

> contact him or FP for some HX magic.

>

> hot

> rod

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 144&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

> "Find A Professional"_/A_

Rudy

Thanks

thanks for the response. Anybody else have an opinion?