Will This Gorton No. 2 Installation Proposal Produce Problems?

Marguerite ~ From Brooklyn ~

Hey, Steam Buddies,

Greetings. Hope every one is doing well.

I do not have room where my air eliminator is installed to install a Gorton No. 2. I currently have a Hoffman 45 installed directly on the elbow at the end of the steam main at the front foundation of my building. My plumber’s idea for installing the No. 2 is using the opening that's there now for the air eliminator. And, through plumbing connections, veer off to the right and up into the ceiling to install the No. 2. In other words, it will be located in the ceiling to the right of the current connection.

This will necessitate breaking the ceiling in the closet, but is suppose to be a much smaller job than if he tried to install the No. 2 in front of the elbow at the end of the steam main line.

I know the air eliminator is supposed to be so many inches up off the elbow and so many inches in back of the elbow. I realize mine being installed directly on the elbow is an incorrect connection. Does this crazy connection of veering to the right and going up work in terms of venting air properly? Will it give me any kinds of problems, i.e. closing early or not closing at all, etc.?

Looking forward to hearing from you. Take care steam buddies

Best regards,

~ Marguerite ~
From Brooklyn

[Deleted User]

should work fine.

around here-cleveland- it seems the old timers always put the vent at the end of the main on a tee fitting..which we know is bad today..so we do what you are proposing all the time..just dont p-trap the pipe..it has to rise or be level..it can't go down unless its dripped..and that would be a can of worms..you should be fine..

Steamhead

I agree

let us know how well it works!

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eburke_24

p-trap

Jerry, what do you mean by p-trap? I had two Gortons installed on the end of my dry returns at the elbow. I have moved them by building out with half inch fittings and tees. The original size at the elbow is quarter inch. Eventually I want to have plumber come in and put a tee 12" up from the elbow with a 1/2" tee to match the size of the number two's. I guess from that quarter inch fitting at the elbow would restrict the ability of the #2 to vent air. Ed

Mad Dog

Hey you put them in where you can

I'd try to use 45s instead of 90, and get the Gorton up and away as fast as you can. We've piped them to areas above in the next floor for access. Mad Dog

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[Deleted User]

if you were steam,

and you got into the return pipes, and you found your way to the air vents, and condensed into water,,would you be able to drain out of the pipe? or would you sit there and stop the air from venting next cycle? thats what i meant by my p-trap analogy.

Unknown

We had a similar situation

with the end of the main hitting smack into a wall and the last radiator pipe was very close . We piped the main vent into the return pipe itself . There was plenty of distance between the height of the tee for the vent and the boiler water line . Worked pretty good . Is there any acces to where the main drops down into your return Margurite ?

eburke_25

vents

eburke_26

vents

eburke_27

vents

How do these look?

Marguerite ~ From Brooklyn ~

Thanks Everyone

Hey Guys,

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it.

Sorry that I haven't replied sooner, but I got really busy. I'll try and answer everyone now.

Take care.

Best regards,

Marguerite
~ From Brooklyn ~

Marguerite ~ From Brooklyn ~

Thanks Gerry

Gerry,

Thanks for the advice.

I just found out from my plumber the other day that the way he is going to install it, I wouldn't be able to put back my ceiling in the closet with an access panel.

So he is going to stop by again and see if he can do something in front of the elbow. If he can't install the Gorton No. 2, maybe he can put four (4) Gorton No. 1's on a tee.

Thanks again steam buddy.

Best regards,

Marguerite
~ From Brooklyn ~

Marguerite ~ From Brooklyn ~

Thanks For Your Advice

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate it.

I just replied to Gerry's posting. Please see my reply there for an update.

Take care.

Best regards,

~ Marguerite ~
~ From Brooklyn ~

Marguerite ~ From Brooklyn ~

Thanks For Your Interest

Dear Ron,

Thanks for your interest in my situation.

The problem for me is the access. My basement is finished where the air eliminator is located. The steam main runs across the ceiling. There is a box around the main with a metal grid on the bottom that is removalable with some difficulty (because we need to remove nails) for access.

In other words, if you look at my celing you see the area built around the main. It is lower than the rest of the ceiling.

The back of the elbow, where the air eliminator is located, is smack up against the front wall foundation. Therefore, I do not have the room to even screw in the Gorton No. 2 because it is too wide and hits the front foundation wall. It is also compounded by the fact that there is a wooden beam directly above it. So I don't even have the clearance on top for the Gorton No. 2.

That is why I originally had the idea of installing the No. 2 before the elbow. I just have to break more wall (inside a closet) where my access panel is currently located to get access to the area in front of the elbow. Then just build a bigger access panel.

The only problem with this is that I may find that I do not have the clearance in height for the No. 2 until after we break the wall.

I found out the other day speaking with my plumber that if he installs the Gorton No. 2 the way he suggested, that the No. 2 will not be completely up in the ceiling and I will have to leave the ceiling open at the point of installation. I don't want to do this.

My plumber is coming back again to reaccess the situation. He is going to readdress my idea of installing the air elimator before the elbow. I suggested that if we don't have the room for the No. 2, perhaps we should install three, preferably four Gorton No. 1's instead.

I hope that I clarified my situation for you.

Thanks and take care.

Best regards,

Marguerite
From Brookyn

Unknown

Tight spots

I used to install steam boilers in Brooklyn - quite alot in Bay Ridge . I miss working in that borough - except for the drive from Levittown .

And I remember seeing basements similar to yours - finished walls and ceilings and tight spots for vents . We often heard the hiss of a leaking main vent behind a finished wall with no access . Not a pretty sight when we replaced them .

Is there any chance you could take some digital pictures of the area where the vent is Marguerite ? Maybe we can come up with some more options for the vent if we can see it online .

Marguerite ~ From Brooklyn ~

Reply To Tight Spots

Dear Ron,

Thanks for your concern and assistance.

Unfortunately, I don't own a digital camera or a scanner. I would love to get one and become savvy at getting the pictures on line.

There is a Hoffman 45 installed there now. And, there is plenty of room for this air eliminator.

I've been doing research and speaking to various representatives from different manufacturers, as well as posting to The Wall, and it seems to me the best thing for me is to get a Gorton No. 2 or equivalent venting. As I understand it, it is impossible to over vent.

My plumber doesn't understand the steam thing as well as he thinks he does. He keeps telling me not to listen to all these people because they don't know my house and he does. His recommendation was a Jacobus (Maid O'Mist) No. 1. He thought that this vented four times more than my Hoffman 45. I checked with Ken at Gorton and this is definitely not so.

I had the Maid O'Mist air eliminator there before the Hoffman 45. Not only did it only last one year before I had to replace it, but my bedroom radiator was slow to heat then too.

Weil McLain told me that I should have a Hoffman 75 or larger at the end of my main. My plumber said that the Hoffman 75 is the size of a soda can and that he didn't think that would fit either.

My plumber told me that putting the Gorton No. 2 on would not help me because it would only get the steam out faster and that would not make my cold bedroom warmer. Duh!!! The radiator is slow to heat and it has a Gorton No. D on it. Duh again!!!

Wouldn't a room become warmer if the radiator got hot right away and didn't get hot as the thermostat was shutting things down? Running a heater for 20 minutes makes it warmer than running it for 5 minutes.

It may very well be that the radiator for this room is still too small, but the Gorton No. 2 will definitely have to improve things with the entire house and help save me money on gas too.

Don't get me wrong, my plumber is a really nice guy, but I don't think he really understands this steam thing like he thinks he does.

So here I am frustrated that I still don't have this Gorton No. 2 installed and pretty soon the winter will be over. I wanted to see the affects of the larger air eliminator on things while we were still in the deep freeze.

I have been working with Ken at Gorton to balance my steam system properly. I have been making changes slowly and giving them a week or two to see the effects of the change. It has been a slow and evolving process. We've even placed pipe insulation on parts of the steam main that didn't have it.

Now I am up against a brick wall (could be my front foundation wall at this point) trying to get the No. 2 installed, or equivalent.

So that's the story.

Best regards,

Marguerite From Brooklyn