Electrical Help- Munchkin to Three systems -Hydro-Radiant-HotWat

Tom DeReggi

Have munchin Boiler 199M. It needs to feed three dissimilar systems. Finished Piping, but Not sure how to do electric hookup?

Job Description:

Zone 1 - Radiant Heat in Basement Slab
Zone 2 - Hydronic Coil in Unico Forced Air for Upstairs Heat.
Zone 3 - Indirect Hot Water Heater (Triangle Phase III)

Each Zone has its own Water Pump. Basic Thermostats and Control system came with Unico, and Upstair AirConditioning system.

The existing Controls, can be connected to turn on each individual pump. But how is the Munchkin boiler told to start firing? Is it settable to auto come on based on water flow and Temporature? Do I need some relays or additional control system to tie togeather the system? I don't want turn on voltage coming from three systems at the same time that could burn out Munchkin ciruitry.

Any recommendations welcome.

kevin coppinger_4

what do you have for a ....

pump relay? kpc

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Floyd_5

Here ya go...

This system used a Tekamar 361 and a Taco SR relay panel for one Muchkin and just a SR panel for the other.
Basically I have the Hydro air and the DHW on one boiler and the mixed temps on the other... however if there were to be less zones than you could do it all with one SR panel and the 361... along with some creative piping.

Tom DeReggi

Nice Work

Floyd,

Nice to see such care taken in the appearance and layout. That usually means care has been taken in all other areas as well.

Tom DeReggi

Relays - Dont have

Thats the problem, I don't have any relays now to do what I need to do.

The Unico MB4860L Blower provides a control kit, to tie the Thermostat to the blower and condensers, and then suggests a DPDT relay (Honeywell R8222D1014)to make a connection to the boiler or pump.

A second thermostat is included by from Radientec. (one of those basic round ones.)

Then the Munchkin has its own control board to "When Thermostat calls for heat, Control board will start circulator, and monitor temperature before heating water." coonection are there for pump and thermostat.

Then The Triangle Water Heater also has a control board on it for its use.

All these things don't consider the boiler being controlled by three different thermostats, nor controlling three seperate pumps. The way the system is piped up, is one pump for each of the three zones (hydronic Air,Radient floor, Water heater). There is not a pump specifically for the boiler.

So I need relays or control boards to tie this togeather.

Floyd_5

Tom......

You not only have an electrical problem.... you have a piping problem also.....
Trust me here....if you do not have a separate upmp for the Munchie you are not ever going to make that system work right no matter how you wire it. I hate to be the beare of bad news to you, but you have fallen for the BS bait and trap of the internet radiant co.!!! The system you have there is NOT something for the DIYer to try!!! You are in way over your head... don't get to hard on yourself, you are not the first one to come here looking for help to get a system running....

My suggestion to you is that you put your tail between your legs a try to find a professional that has done P/S piping and understands how it works to check out your piping and then wire things up for you......

I am trying to be very nice about this, but it would be very difficult to walk you through everything you need to do to get your system "up and running" the way that it should perform for you.

PLEASE!!!!! Get competent professional help!!!!

Floyd

Mark Hunt

Tom


Did the folks that sold you this unit happen to mention that you need a combustion analyser to set up the boiler for proper combustion?

Before you destroy the boiler, please hire a contractor that is familiar with this VERY TECHNICAL piece of equipment and have them finish the job.

Floyd said it, we can't walk you through this and you definately do not have the right tools to complete the job correctly.

Sorry you have to go through this.

Mark H



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Tom DeReggi

Explanation - and looking for contractor

First of all, I want to thank you for your kind help.

I installed Radient system, which I originally intended to be independantly powered by a Polaris water heater. This was specifically so I didn't need to deal with the expense and complications of a boiler system. Radiantec was a fantastic company to work with and very competent, and not responsible for my problems, as the design changed after working with them.

The problem started when my AC/Heating contracter had to back out on me at the last minute, days before it needed to be installed. ON short notice, I couldn't find a contractor that knew what they were doing willing to install a High Velocity Unico system. Everyone kept trying to talk me out of what I wanted. I really wanted Unico for cosmetic reasons for my beautiful Cedar Home, and there were also design needs that I required that were unconventional, that the contracters couldn't grasp, like keeping the basement system on a seperate system/meter as it was being paid for by my corporation, and not having the downstairs duct system connected to the top floors, for sound proofing reasons, since the basement was a music studio. And I got tired of hearing, that the two top floors of my house were to large to be heated and cooled by a single 5 ton unit / 1250cfm blower, which was not true. Those type of things irritated me, when most of contractors didn't know how to even do the heatloss calculations correctly, forgetting to consider things like our LowE Windows that changed the results of calculations by almost a 1/3. Combine that with not getting return phone calls for months, I lost confidence in others, and was forced to design the Forced Air system myself. Unico as well was a big help, and provided me the tools I needed to install a basic system. Which by the way, I designed near perfectly after extensive study. The problem came in when I couldn't find anyone willing to sell me the equipment, as I was not a licensed contractor. So I was forced to find someone else to buy and install it, even though they didn't have all the skill to complete the whole job, and of course they ended up making mistakes, as they were not familiar with the system they were installing. At the end of the day, there were three different contractors doing their individual part, all trying to be helpful, but not having the knowledge to tie the parts togeather.

Everything was OK though and within my control and capability, until just recently, when I was forced to make a quick decission without time think about it, and I took a suggestion from my Plumber to install a boiler. I gave in for two reasons, 1) Because he was planning to do the work, I deferred to his judgement and let him use equipment that he could buy locally and potentially support and stand behind. 2) In the long run, I knew I would be better off with the boiler, since the temporature that I originally planned to feed the coils with was a little low based on some last minute changes made by the installer (installed fewer outlets and smaller return duct than I spec'd). So the higher temporature boiler would help make up for the lower air flow and better heat the house.

I can't blame the contractors that I ended up using, as they mostly came to my aid in a time of need, and were thrown into the project after the fact. It was more of a problem of not knowing a good contractor in advance familiar with our intended use products. But one thing I've learned is to trust myself and my research, which is why I made the Posts here. When I just blindly rely on others, mistakes are usually made. For example, I was not involved in the pump and plumbing installation and design last week, where it now appears there could be a flaw in design.

As far as hooking up the boiler, I admit I am over my head. And I never intended to be involved in that part, based on the fact that I know what I know and I know what I don't know, and I know nothing about boilers or controls.
Right now I am in the position where I don't have any choice but to learn. My plumber is a good plumber and a great guy, but I also think he is in the same situation, and working outside his expertise at this stage, and hasn't represented otherwise.

Its not all bad news, I think I will have a fantastic heating and Air conditioning system, offering maximum efficiency and comfort, because I got involved. And I learned alot. But I am at the point where I do need help to finish. Its not one of those situations where harry homeowner tried to save a buck, I've dropped about $25,000 into it so far, and have tried without success to find competent contractors willing to take the job.

Do you have any recommendations of a good contractor in Maryland familiar with my products? Or any one willing to travel?

Its hard finding a contracter to come out to finish up other peoples work.















as the Unico was a little underspec based on temporature I originally planned to feed the wsome changes made by the hired installer, extra heating power would help the system heat better,

munchkin-man

fax me a piping lay out and you can use a circulator relay

center with an end sw to bring on the Munchie or use one of our pool heaters it is a 20 gallon tank with 1 1/2" supply and return and installa aquastat on it and let it cntrol the water temp in the tank and have all the zone pumps pull from it. This will simplify it all. You must use primary pumping.