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almost got a Munchkin; also, will they ever make 'tween sizes?

R. Kalia
R. Kalia Member Posts: 349
After learning a lot from this board, I signed a contract for a Munchkin. Just to be conservative, I faxed it to them but said I wouldn't mail an advance until we had set an installation date.

Lucky I did that, because they now say they can't get a new Munchkin for six weeks. By then the heating season is almost over and there won't be an opportunity to put the system through its paces in cold weather. So, I'll keep my money until early fall. There will be other choices or new information by then; I may change my mind and buy an Ultra, although their idea of a reset curve is wacko.

(a) Why the big backlog? Supposedly the economy is hurting, but you can't make the money if you don't manufacture enough product!

(b) By the fall, any chance there will be Munchkin sizes between the current sizes, just as WM brought out several 'tween sizes of Ultra this year? For us, 80 is a little too small and 140 is too big (it's nearly twice as big as the 80!!). Yes I know they modulate, but the 140 only goes down to 47, so it would be cycling rather than modulating during a lot of the spring and fall.

Comments

  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
    Others will

    respond to the boiler sizes but I question your comment about the economy. Housing starts are, and have been, at their all time high.

    It's a small wonder any manufacturers are able to keep up with the residential market. Let's just hope it keeps going.
  • R. Kalia
    R. Kalia Member Posts: 349
    I didn't think of that

    Oh. Well, then, never mind.

    (But...they tell me there's no backlog for cast iron.)

    If I still want a Munchkin in the fall, I'll start the ball rolling early. This year was a learning process.
  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 285


    Take a look at the NTI "Trinity".Modulating & Condensing between 40-140 MBH.
    www.nythermal.com

    Good Luck
    Brian
  • munchkin-man
    munchkin-man Member Posts: 247
    Munchkin makes inbetween sises

    The T50 and the T80 with 5:1 turn down now. Thanks for considering the use of our product. As you can see the Munchkin is a very poular system that is why it is worth the wait. When you want the best the best is waiting for you.
  • Jim Adezio
    Jim Adezio Member Posts: 2
    seeking advice on Munchkins quality/dependability

    I am condsidering replacing the nightmare Glowcore boiler in my house with a Heat Transfer Products Munchkin. After the bad experience with this Glowcore I would really appreciate any feedback that I can get from homeowners who have and are using a Munchkin for their heat. I live in a 1920's arts and crafts style home with radiators and not much insulation.Any input (positive or negative) would be greatly appreciated!
  • R. Kalia
    R. Kalia Member Posts: 349
    but, but, but...

    I am not sure what you mean...the T50 and T80 are already in the brochure. I meant new sizes between the sizes that are in the brochure. Oh, and 5:1 on the floor models would be very nice as well. Why not?

    My own need is for something between 80 and 140, which is almost a factor of 2 jump. WM Ultra makes models with 80,105,155,230...

    > When you want the best the best

    > is waiting for you.


    No, it's not waiting for me. It's back-ordered with six-week lead time.
  • R. Kalia
    R. Kalia Member Posts: 349


    > The T50 and the T80 with 5:1 turn down now.

    > Thanks for considering the use of our product.

    > As you can see the Munchkin is a very poular

    > system that is why it is worth the wait. When

    > you want the best the best is waiting for you.



  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    You could always

    add a buffer tank to the 140 and not worry about cycles. HTP makes a nice tank for that purpose. 4 large 1-1/4" taps, well insulated, fits nicely below the boiler :)

    hot rod

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  • G Averill
    G Averill Member Posts: 1
    Only 6 weeks wait?

    Consider yourself lucky if you only have to wait six weeks for a Munchkin boiler. We just received a partial shipment of a load ordered in early October, with no real promises as to when the backorders will appear.
    It is definately a fine product that we enjoy selling, but it surely a pain having to continue to tell contractors how more promised delivery dates have come and gone.
  • Justin Gavin
    Justin Gavin Member Posts: 129
    Do yourself a favor

    Does the old home have a chimney?
    Are the radiators Cast Iron?

    If the answer is yest than save your money and get yourself an atmospheric cast iron boiler. Have a chimney liner installed if nescessary.

    Most Radiators require a substantial amount of heat to be effective.

    Have you had any updates (windows, new insulation,or anything else)?

    Have a proper heat loss done on the house, and have the new boiler sized right for the job. For the extra cost of a condensing boiler you could add an indirect hot water heater and outdoor reset. You will save money, have a efficient system and have no more problems.

    In my opinion the only time you should use a Munchkin or any condensing boiler is when you have a home with 100% in-floor heating and/or low temp panel radiators.

    Munchkins are good for what they are made for (low temp hydronic heating)

    Good Luck,
    Justin
  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    Justin

    Sometimes I feel the same way, I like the simplicity of the cast iron beasties, however... I just finished a job with large cast iron rads left over from a gravity system installed long ago. I have the cast iron rads on a mixing loop with a reset curve that allows them to reach only 130 degrees when it is 10 degrees outside, and it is still cycling the tstat which means they are still too warm to some degree. Condensing boilers could be the right choice and save big bucks if the radiators are oversized like my job. It's then a matter of proper controls with reset.

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Justin


    I have SEVERAL customers that would argue that point with you.

    Why would a cast iron radiator, which was probably grossly oversized, be any different from a panel radiator?

    I have Munchkin's installed in nearly every application imaginable. ALL of my customers report substantial savings.

    Those big cast iron radiators can put out some serious BTU's at LOWER temps. Most older homes have had some improvements made to the insulation/infiltration in the time that they have been standing. So now those big rads are even bigger than they need to be.

    I can't understand why anyone would want to put an atmospheric anything in a home, old or new.

    Next time you happen to be in one of these old beauties, take a look around.

    Is there a computer in the home?
    A Micro-wave oven?
    Cordless phone?
    Color T.V?
    VCR?
    DVD?
    Stero with CD?

    Why would I leave the heating system in the 1900's when everything else in the home is at 2000 or better?

    Mark H







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  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Listen to the man

    > I have SEVERAL customers that would argue that

    > point with you.

    >

    > Why would a cast iron

    > radiator, which was probably grossly oversized,

    > be any different from a panel radiator?

    >

    > I have

    > Munchkin's installed in nearly every application

    > imaginable. ALL of my customers report

    > substantial savings.

    >

    > Those big cast iron

    > radiators can put out some serious BTU's at LOWER

    > temps. Most older homes have had some

    > improvements made to the insulation/infiltration

    > in the time that they have been standing. So now

    > those big rads are even bigger than they need to

    > be.

    >

    > I can't understand why anyone would want

    > to put an atmospheric anything in a home, old or

    > new.

    >

    > Next time you happen to be in one of

    > these old beauties, take a look around.

    >

    > Is

    > there a computer in the home? A Micro-wave

    > oven? Cordless phone? Color

    > T.V? VCR? DVD? Stero with CD?

    >

    > Why would I

    > leave the heating system in the 1900's when

    > everything else in the home is at 2000 or

    > better?

    >

    > Mark H

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    >

    > _A

    > HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

    > 238&Step=30"_To Learn More About This

    > Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in

    > "Find A Contractor"_/A_





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  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Listen to Mr. Hunt!

    For a while now, I've been seeing peoples's mentality that because the Munchkin is a condensing boiler, it has no use for anything but low temp applications.

    And every time I see this, I want to scream into the monitor that this is not true!

    What about the fact that it is a sealed combustion appliance?
    What about the fact that it's vent does away with chimney integrity and safety issues?
    What about the fact that it is a modulating flame burner, adjusting itself to ever-changing load conditions, unlike a "wide-open" conventional gas boiler?
    What about the fact that the thing takes up as much space as a piece of carry-on luggage, and who doesn't need more space?
    What about the fact that it has one of the most advanced control systems out there, not to mention the cool digital readout on the board?
    What about the fact that the thing is encased in a thick shell, and is vitually silent when running?
    What about the fact that one man can carry it into the house to install it without breaking his back, the stairs, or anything else?

    Need more reasons?

    Use it for anything. The fact that it can be condensing (or not) is just another advantage.

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  • Boilerpro_3
    Boilerpro_3 Member Posts: 1,231
    Radiators require a substancial amount of heat to be effective?

    Since radiators often act as a low temp heat source and transfer large amount of radiant heat at low water temps, I am not sure how this statement could be true. It does take a substancial amount of heat to get them up to 180F, but in most cases they never even reach that temp on the coldest day of the year. Most converted gravity hot water systems run at condensing temps nearly all year. My own home's original gravity system had about 900EDR or about 135,000 btu/hr output at 180F. The heat load is now about 52,000 btu/hr, so that 900edr needs to run at 110F ON THE COLDEST DAY OF THE YEAR, to heat the home. This is colder than most radiant floor systems, so why would you not install a condensing boiler if you are looking to maximize efficiency. There may be other reasons, like access to parts, architectural concerns of sidewall venting, etc., but I don't know of any system limited ones.

    Boilerpro
  • munchkin-man
    munchkin-man Member Posts: 247
    You guy's are awsome

This discussion has been closed.