Gorton #2 Staying Closed

Thad English

I have a 2 pipe air-vent steam system run by an oversized peerless boiler that was just correctly repiped by a pro whom I found on this site (and who did great work I must say). Before the re-piping, I was having a problem with my main vent, a gorton #2, staying shut and not venting the main. I spoke with Ken Kunz at Gorton and they had a replacement to me the next day. The replacement does the same thing: it stays shut.

After the repiping, the vent worked so I thought the problem was fixed. Then I was down there yesterday at the start of a cycle and it was not venting again.


The temperature in my basement between the joists where the vent is located is not more than 75 degrees so I know that the 110 degree issue is not in play here as it was in a couple of other posts about this same problem. The vent is on a tee about 10 inches above the lowest part of the main and it is located right at the end of the main. The drip from the main to the wet return drops off the same tee as the main vent. 2 returns from 2nd and 3rd floor rads connect to the drip line before it connects to the wet return. There are check valves between the returns and the drip line and other check valve between the drip line and the wet return.

Can anyone think of anything that might cause the vent to stay closed for extended periods? The boiler runs on for 5 minutes, off for 11 and the mains are insulated. The pressurtrol is set at .5 psi. The rad vents all hiss loudly. Any thoughts as to how to get the main vent to vent?

Thanks,

Thad

Fred Harwood

Gorton #2

What's the water level at the vent? If the boiler pressure is stacking water at the wet return junction (or the wet return is clogged), it might close the vent.

Thad English

I was thinking the same thing about the water level, but wouldn't a huge portion of my steam main have to contain water before the vent became closed due to the vent being 10 inches above the lowest part of the main? The vent is even above the highest point of the main. Or would the steam pressure in the main "hold" that water against the vent?

Fred Harwood

Yes

The vent probably isn't waterlogged if it's that high above most of the main, and the junction of the main and wet return is well above (28 inches for each psi) the boiler water line.

Does the vent reopen between cycles?

Thad English

It does not open and that is the problem. The mains vent through the rads and it gets loud. I have already replaced the #2 once and the problem has occured in both vents. It is bizarre. Could it have something to do with the check valves or the drip lines and returns being connected above the boiler's water line?

[Deleted User]

can you post a picture

of the main vent and its surroundings? only one thing should shut the gorton vent..heat..be it from air, radiant from the piping, or steam...we have learned thru experiance to not place a gorton #2 in the boiler room..is it on the supply or return piping?

Jamie_6

Thad,

I was reading through some of my Peerless literature (the color of steam; I'll get you a copy if you want it) this evening & it stated that they (Peerless) would like that vent 12 to 18 inches away from the last drop to the equalizer! Apparently the end off the loop is a critical place & will play nasty tricks on vents! I'm not really sure why though.

Jamie


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steve_6

main vents

when you think your gortons aren't venting anymore, pull one off imediatley and blow through it. if you can't , it closed on temperature

Fred Harwood

Try

repiping the vent to give it more bare pipe length. At times, the hot air in the mains can close the vent before all the hot air is vented. Bare vent piping cools the air a bit. Just temporarily el and nipple it into a new place on perhaps 18 inches of bare horizontal pipe and see what happens.

Also, make sure your pressure is low, 2 psi cutout or lower is good.

scrook_2

vent placement

Hoffmann recomments the same: 18" back & 6" up on a nipple to keep'm away from the condensate making the turn, but you see a lot built w/ a reducing tee at the drop w/ the vent directly in the reduced run.

Thad English

Thanks for the info

Thanks for the responses from everyone. I will post some pix when I get home tonight. I think that we are on the right track to solving the problem, though. You will see that the vent appears to be in the wrong place: too close to the end of the main and the drop to the wet return. It comes right off the top of a tee (which is connected to the main) and the bottom of that tee drips straight into the wet return.

Jamie, I'll call you and we'll set up a time to knock this out.

Thanks again everyone,

Thad

Thad English

Pix o' the vent

Here is a photo of the current set up for the vent in question. All of the scorching and water marking on the joists and subfloor above is from before I bought this place.

[Deleted User]

just for s**ts and giggles

put a hoffman 75 in its place and see what happens okay..bimetal vents dont work in every application and/or enviorment..weve learned to carry both, float and bimetal on the truck and try to match the best vent to more than just capacity,,we try to match it to its surroundings and we only now put hoffmans actually in the boiler rooms..doesnt mean we wont use gortons..just finished a job that we put two gortons at the ends of the mains, and four hoffmans in the boiler room..

Mad Dog

It could..................................

can you post pics? MD

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Thad English

Tonight

Tonight when I get home, I'll post some pix of the area below the main where the 2 returns and drip line come together. It has a return from the kitchen rad, and a return that serves a second floor rad and 3rd floor rad coming together and then attaching to the drip line that comes off the end of the main. Everything is separated with check valves and the pipes are all the same size. I can't figure out why everything comes together above the water line of the boiler and then drops into the wet return that runs around my basement.

Thad English

returns, drips, etc

MadDog,
My system is the one pictured on page 125 of the Lost Art. This picture shows how the returns and drips come together at a point 36 inches above the floor. The boiler's water line is about 26 inches above the floor. I get some heat out of the rads that these returns are connected to, but they vent very loud. Should these connections be straight into the wet return or could they just be lowered to below the boiler's water line?

[Deleted User]

Some observations.

1. Those galvanized fittings scream "add on."
2. Don't remember seeing a steam job w/ a radiator take off that close to the end of a main.
3. There's a lot of action in that area. Dry steam ain't part of it.
4. Piggy backing a main line vent onto a radiator take off is a no-no.
5. Main line vents are solitary animals. They don't like sharing their pipe.

To refresh what's left of my memory, I just walked thru the boiler room. The Gorton #2 & #1 are both in the ceiling. Never a problem. However, the closest radiator take off to either drip is 3' away. If I was going to do any piping at your home, I would move that radiator take off as far away from the end of the main as practical. Then that #2 Gorton would be as solitary as it wants to be. They like it that way.

Thad English

venting

So would moving that rad take-off up the main to before the vent help those rads get steam to them quicker by allowing the main vent work properly? I don't understand the connection.

Fred Harwood

Vent connection

That piping configuration looks strange. And the size of the pipe between the two insulated steam pipes looks too small for good steam flow. Unless I'm looking at it wrong, those two steam pipes should be of the same size and not connected to that little vent piping. I think that's why others are saying it needs to be repiped, full size, to the steam main. Then the vent riser won't also have to feed steam to a radiator down the line.