Looking For Thermostatic air dampers....Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

I came across some forced air equivalents to TRV's on a very nice air system in a high end home built in the 50's. The room dampers appear to have a built in thermostat that directly controls the damper position without any power source.
I am thinking of using these in a radiant floor partial retrofit to a 7 year old home with forced air. Most of the first floor will be radiant, however, I have some spaces that are going to require supplemental heating if I wnat to keep thefloor temps under 95F! I was thinking of retrofitting a hot water coil to the furnace using full reset of supply water temps and allowing this to continue feeding the non radiant heated space and supplement area that need it. I would be using these dampers in the supplemental areas at least and maybe in the other foced air only heated spaces as well.

You folks know of any sources and had any experiences? I suspect they were Barber Coleman, so I will be checking with Art Pittaway at Invensys this morning to see if they still make such a thing.

Boilerpro

don_9

Damper

Thats something,never seen that before,but I know where you
can find diffuser with low voltage motor on them.

Ewc control has them.
Sales-1-800-446-3110
Tech-1-800-526-4048

Email:info@ewccontrols.com

don_9

Forgot

To mention if you do choose to go that route,may I suggest
a varaible speed A/h with a static sensor.

With out it,you will create lots of noise and flow thru
the open zones,when the other diffuser start closing.
Much better control then your typical bypass damper.

jerry scharf

sounds very interesting

I would imagine it is pneumatic, with some careful balancing of the air required to operate the damper and the expansion bulb on the wall. You could make it variable set point with a lever that squeezed the bulb a bit. I'd love to see a picture of both parts.

The thing I don't like about all the residential damper zoning systems is that they have the forced air on/off metality. Their solution to over pressure is a bypass damper. Let's see, fixed output heat source, zone dampers opening and closing to get to temp, serious air pooling at the ceiling, and people don't feel as comfortable with these fancy zone systems as they expected. They also wonder why they didn't save as much money as they expected.

Like Mike T. says, proportional is good.

jerry

Art Pittaway

Hi BP...Sorry, not us, but

I did some asking around and we didn't do any "self acting" with cap tube. The only thermostatic powered devices were radiator valves. To this day Robertshaw makes small powered damper assemblies. See...www.icca.invensys.com/products , under Robertshaw there is a listing of products that you can browse, including barometric and actuated dampers up to 3 foot square, zone controllers, thermostats, etc. Art

Mike T., Swampeast MO

General Electric

Made such a thing in that timeframe. Have some old advertising literature but of course--it's not where I need it when I need it!

Will try post a photo of such tomorrow.

Are the vanes of the register around sides and top and directed to "wash" the wall? This was the "fancy" version of the much more common registers that they called "Air Wall" I believe.

Boilerpro_3

I probably will stop by and look at them, Thursday..NM

flange

you can look at VAV dampers, but they are expensive. why not just get a plain old hydro air fancoil unit, fit it with a three way valve and a low limit, set it up to run all the time during a call for heat and vary the output. you could deliver a relatively low, constant temp to the spaces and this would provide even comfort without overheating.

Boilerpro_3

That is where I'm starting,

however, I want to use the AH to provide supplementary heating to some radiantly heated spaces, so I may want to be able to control it. Also it would be nice to see rrom by room control for scorched air, but it does not look too promising.

Boilerpro

Art Pittaway

Furnace or boiler?

If it's a boiler with a hydrocoil. If you warm the floor and control it with a floor sensor then "make up the difference" with the scorched air it should work. You want to use a hydrocoil which will work better since it won't overheat if it is short of cfm. It's the control of heat from a full firing burner that is a problem for scortched air. A barometric bypass damper unloads the fan so it won't deadhead when only one zone is open, and maintains a set static pressure. The floor temp is calculated and set i.e. 75?, and warming will start when outdoor temp is below 65?? (2 stage set point control in series), room thermostat is set for 72* and will come on when the floor can't keep up. Art

hr

Belimo

makes a bunch of unique actuators for FA and hydronics. I think hb uses their stuff.

They have a good ad in this months ASHRAE Journal www.belimo.com

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Paul Bock_2

Go to acutherm.com

and check out the thermafuser line. Ive had good luck with them in the past. they're self contained, and they make lineal difusers, and lay-ins. Maybe a little too "commercial" looking, but it's the only automatic difuser I can think of. Paul

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Proportional Radiant Forced Air Wall Register

(At least that's how GE described it in 1951)

Boilerpro_3

I was thinking along similiar lines

except I would let the floor heat do its thing all the way up to 85F floor temp, and then if the temp in the space starts dropping, the forced air register would open on its own thermostat. Basically the floor and hydrocoil would be running on outdoor reset. The space in mind is a north facing "sunroom" with glass walls on E, W and N sides. I might have some potential overheating with the early morning or late everning sun, or high occupancy, so I am thinking trv to modulate the floor. Danfoss has what looks like a neat little package just for this.

Boilerpro

jerry scharf

I liked what acutherm has

Paul,

Very simple and elegant. I'm assuming the piston control is similar to the temerature based shower controls. They are just a bit to rich, costing more than double what a proportional control damper is.

Here's a question. Has anyone heard of a similar animal for splitting a pair of dx coils of s single compressor? If you adjust the flow such that the return temp of the two suction lines are the same, you've balanced the two at an ideal level. It seems like the expanding parafin would be perfect for such a setup. A simple box with six fittings, no power, no setup, no maintenance, hard to beat.

thanks,
jerry

Boilerpro_3

Sorry, they weren

Boilerpro_3

Sorry, they weren't home, I'll post when I can. NM

Marty_5

Cant think of any still available they would work with a hydro coil but they have A/C or a "regular" furnace a bad dampering setup will kill either pretty quick. Someday someone far smarter than I will figure out how to get oil back to a varaible speed compressor when its running on a low speed. couple that with a varaible speed indoor motor, 3 way valve on a hot water coil and get the best of both water and forced air.