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\"No-one gets out of here alive!\"

Mark Hunt
Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
Everyone! No survivors!

Is this acceptable? Do we file them in the "that's life" file?

Or do we ignore it because it was a stove, and WE don't sell or service stoves?

A whole family folks. Mom, Dad, Kids. Gone.

If they had been killed by a drunk driver or an "SUV", this would have been carried by a national media outlet. But their deaths do not warrant that level of attention, because it was CO.

Carbon Monoxide, NUMBER ONE poison in the USA. NUMBER ONE!

You will see that in EVERY story that I have posted, the fireman or paramedics were the ones that found "the" problem, never a PHVAC contractor.

That is just plain wrong.

Of course if the PHVAC contractors were doing their JOB , we would see far less of these stories!

We are the experts folks. People trust us with the lives of their families.

Argue all day about controls and boilers, that's healthy for the industry, but DO NOT forget that WE are the people that should understand combustion more than ANYONE. That is HEALTHY for our customers!

Bacharach should be overwhelmed with orders! JIm Davis and Timmie Mcelwain should have SRO at their schools!

Sadly, that is not the case.

Anyway, here is the link to the story of an entire family that died in Kentucky.

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=1626491&nav=0RZFKYwz

Look at it if you care, ignore them if you want.

God I care, I really do.

Who wants to care with me?

Mark H











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Comments

  • Murph'_4
    Murph'_4 Member Posts: 209
    I been reading this also

    Something so innocent looking can cause such detrement, I tell everyone I see, scary stuff at the least!!



    Murph'
  • Wayco Wayne_2
    Wayco Wayne_2 Member Posts: 2,479
    I make sure

    all of my customers have a CO detector in the house. I've been telling them the Master Bedroom is the priority location since you are most vulnerable when you're asleep. Would you agree with this or have anything to add? WW

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  • Bud_14
    Bud_14 Member Posts: 200
    We care

    I printed out the last one you've helped make us aware of, the kids passing out by Mom. They lived! But the point is very well known and I still pass it around to make people aware of the dangers and the chances they're taking with unsafe equipment..especially in the inner city (I do much work there) where these people cannot afford to fix there furnace..I've seen them run propane heaters in kitchens..they get the propane from grills around the neighborhood, very sad!

    There was no time on the news for this yeterday...they had more important things to discus like the superbowl

    Bud
  • MikeB34
    MikeB34 Member Posts: 155
    It is a pity

    THis is not life its a tragedy. Mandatory equipment testing and maintnance should be law. not a recommendation.

    I usually recommend at least 2 CO detectors on all my installs. 1 on everyfloor. Too many times I have seen a CO detector in the basement mech room. HO reply was "well that's where the equipment is"

    Will it wake you when it goes off if you're sleeping on the 3rd floor? NO. will you wake up at all. NO.

    I'd like to see CO detection systems kill all appliances with a master solenoid on the fuel line (NG,LP,OIL etc).

    It senses 30ppm. Off goes the fuel, warning light sounds. Nonresetable by HO.

    Easier to get into the building code than all the manufacturers. too many variables for that. some appliances are vented, some are not, what is acceptable.etc.

    This is a serious issue on both sides of the border.

    I pray for all.

    Mike
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Good for you Wayne!


    Bedrooms are a good choice for locating CO alarms.

    They won't help you much while you sleep if you can't hear them.

    Good work!

    Mark H

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  • Billy March
    Billy March Member Posts: 43


    Just read the story about the family in kentucky. Made me sick to my stomach. Something HAS to be done about mandating detectors to stop a tragedy like this from happening again. Mark.........keep up the crusade. I'm on the bandwagon..
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Excellent Bill!

    > Just read the story about the family in kentucky.

    > Made me sick to my stomach. Something HAS to be

    > done about mandating detectors to stop a tragedy

    > like this from happening again. Mark.........keep

    > up the crusade. I'm on the bandwagon..





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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Excellent Bill!

    > Just read the story about the family in kentucky.

    > Made me sick to my stomach. Something HAS to be

    > done about mandating detectors to stop a tragedy

    > like this from happening again. Mark.........keep

    > up the crusade. I'm on the bandwagon..





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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Excellent Bill!


    These are completely avoidable deaths.

    And WE are just the people to make a difference!

    Mark H



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  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,714
    If I can test

    every tech reading this can too.

    Testo, Bacharach and others make the equipment.

    We make the tests.

    No ifs, ands or buts.

    No excuses.

    TEST EVERYTHING!

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  • GaryDidier
    GaryDidier Member Posts: 229
    CO

    Mark,
    These stories of preventable deaths scare the hell out of me. When I first saw the pro 125 demonstrated with its CO detecting ability I bought one on the spot. It astounds me that very few tecks are provided with this equipment and the training to go with it. I even offer to test homes for my customers that have suspicions of possible CO levels.Every home should have CO protection. I am not a fan of goverment mandates but in this case it would save lives.
    Your activism on CO can prod us all to be more aware and help educate our friends and customers.
    Gary from Granville
  • kevin_5
    kevin_5 Member Posts: 308
    Cracked propane HXs aren't dangerous!

    At least that is what I heard a guy say the other day.
    He said he would shut down a natural gas furnace with cracked heat exchanger immediately, but propane wasn't that dangerous. He even claimed to have lived with an unvented propane water heater for 4 years.
    I told him that ANY burning fuel produces CO most of the time and they were all dangerous. I bought a Bacharach Fyrite Pro 125 with printer from Carl's Calibration on the web, and beside the customer's safety, I feel it brings a lot of credibility to the operator. Maybe we should be building a CO detector into the price of each boiler we install huh? Kevin

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  • Ball Valve
    Ball Valve Member Posts: 18
    Hard to imagine

    Heard obout a family here in PA that was led to believe an oil funace could not produce CO. They were told this by thier installer. Six months later the chimmney (shared with a wood burner) caught fire due to blockage and cracked the masonary flue and blocks. Luckily, the people called for a second opinion. Cant believe what some techs dont know, or care about.
  • Murph'_4
    Murph'_4 Member Posts: 209


    if co is so bad for you why do they put it in my sodapop? would it make gas have bubbles. this is what i wonder. BT
  • DIY Homeowner
    DIY Homeowner Member Posts: 48
    .

    because carbon dioxide, CO2 is in soda, and carbon monoxide, is in combustion by-products.
  • Greg Swob
    Greg Swob Member Posts: 167
    That's another point right there...

    How many times do you hear people talk about CO2 or about a CO@ detector, when they are referring to CO. Hopefully they do understand the difference and are simply calling the killer by a similar name.

    Another myth discussed before on this site: "A nice blue flame is your best indication that everything is OK and you don't need to test...". Bull! I keep testing anyway and will continue to do so. You can almost hear customers sigh relief when I tell them I've tested and I know the system is burning cleanly and/or household air is clear of CO. Greg
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Beginnings of a groundswell?


    Yes Greg, I have had people confuse CO with CO2. This just shows how poorly educated MOST people, contractors included, are about CO.

    "Oil doesn't produce CO", "It was factory tested", "No-one tests gas equipment", "Do you know how much those testers cost?", etc.....................

    I have heard all of the excuses.

    How many PHVAC contractors wake up each morning and start the day considering how IMPORTANT they are to the health of their customers?

    How many of you realize that your customers trust you with their very lives?

    Don't you all see? YOU are the guardian angels. YOU are supposed to be watching over these people. I have posted so many deaths in the past few months. I am not making this stuff up. I have asked for a show of hands from those who test, very few raised them.

    I thought that the tragic story of the two ONE YEAR old twins that were killed by CO produced by a water heater would have set off a firestorm.

    Instead I heard crickets.

    An entire family gets killed and no-one is moved to respond.

    WE, WE are the ones that should be protecting our customers. WE are supposed to know best.

    Manufacturers should be slamming this message home.

    I am so glad to see posts from others in this industry that are out in the field testing equipment! You folks are an inspiration!!!!!!

    What would you all say if I told you that the number of people poisoned by CO in the USA was 40 to 50 thousand every year?

    Have you ever heard of CHRONIC CO poisoning?

    Those stories that I have been posting are all ACUTE poisonings. Acute poisonings are high level exposures that result in rapid reactions. CHRONIC poisonings are repeated exposures to LOW levels. Care to guess what happens in those cases? Care to guess how many people are currently suffering from Chronic exposure illnesses? Can anyone name ONE symptom of Chronic CO exposure?

    You ask any liscenced plumber why traps and vents are mandated by code.(If the answer you get is "to keep the drain from gurggling", find a new plumber)

    So we are very concerned with venting the bad gases from sewage, but not AS concerned with keeping the bad gases from combustion from entering a home?

    I don't want this to be a mile long post, so I will end with this.

    If you manufacture, sell, or install and service combustion appliances, you need to get yourself enrolled in a class that teaches you about combustion, venting, and CO.

    If you enter homes for ANY reason, you need to know what to look for. You don't have to know how to fix the problem, but you better damn well know how to identify one!
    Identify it BEFORE it kills someone. Contact someone that can fix it if you don't know how to.

    We can change this folks!

    Together.

    Mark H





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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    You Sir


    Are a Guardian Angel!

    If anyone EVER says otherwise............


    refer them to me.

    Your friend,

    Mark H

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    You're right Kevin!


    Build in the price of a GOOD CO alarm on EVERY job. If you are in a house for ANY call, offer a GOOD CO alarm. Explain why it is important. If the customer balks, show them my posts. Hard to argue with those numbers eh?

    Kevin, if you would, give us an idea of the number of contractors in your area and estimate how many of them actually test the equipment they install.

    I would appreciate your feedback!

    Mark H

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  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,909
    Gary from Granville


    I want to buy you a cup of coffee.

    You are pretty close to me, and I will be starting a job out your way in the spring.

    You and I must make a special point to meet at least once.

    Perhaps we can get something going with the other contractors in NY.

    I appreciate your kind words.

    P.S. Got up to 34 degrees today! Almost warm enough to swim!

    Mark H

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  • kevin_5
    kevin_5 Member Posts: 308


    The guy I quoted earlier is a professional PHVAC guy been in business for maybe 25 years. Makes me feel like a newbie like me isn't so dumb after all. I can't really say that I know all the equipment each contractor has or how many are in my area, but I don't know of anybody who has one. There may indeed be several, but I think statistics would be very much against that. My hometown is 800, and is located within a 35 mile radius of 3 bigger towns very roughly 30,000 each more or less. (Small college towns)I know only a very small percentage of contractors around, but Bacharach or Testo might have records of how many they sold in Nebraska and how many of those were in Lincoln and Omaha which are 2 and 3 hours from here. I must admit that I did the right thing but not for totally unselfish reasons. I wanted to distinguish myself from the others, and nothing wrong with that, but customer safety probably wasn't my absolute top priority in buying it. Kevin

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  • kevin_5
    kevin_5 Member Posts: 308


    The guy I quoted earlier is a professional PHVAC guy been in business for maybe 25 years. Makes me feel like a newbie like me isn't so dumb after all. I can't really say that I know all the equipment each contractor has or how many are in my area, but I don't know of anybody who has one. There may indeed be several, but I think statistics would be very much against that. My hometown is 800, and is located within a 35 mile radius of 3 bigger towns very roughly 30,000 each more or less. (Small college towns)I know only a very small percentage of contractors around, but Bacharach or Testo might have records of how many they sold in Nebraska and how many of those were in Lincoln and Omaha which are 2 and 3 hours from here. I must admit that I did the right thing but not for totally unselfish reasons. I wanted to distinguish myself from the others, and nothing wrong with that, but customer safety probably wasn't my absolute top priority in buying it. Kevin

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This discussion has been closed.