The Magic of 140 Degrees

Dan M

So I should avoid doing the dishes in the hot tube ?

Unknown

Harmful Bacteria (Below 140 degrees)

are released when temps get down around human body temperature. When temps are set low such as swimming pools and hot tubs many harmful bacteria are released. Most places that have those type of temperatures have to super chlorinate (Is it really effective).

Let us talk about meats (steak lovers) bacteria are dormant when frozen, so we take the meats out of the freezer and we cook them. Some folks like meat rare, fact is unless the temperature gets to 140 degrees plus the meat is not safe to eat. How well done is relative to time and temperature. Frank Purdue puts the little temperature button in his chickens, purpose to pop when temperature inside the bird is 140 degrees +, it is there to protect Purdue from law suits from salmonella.

Washing dishes, silverware, trays etc. handwash cycle must be 140 degrees, second rinse 140 + and final rinse 180 for santitization. If you are using a commercial dishwasher final rinse must be 200 degrees.

Sterilization is not necessary for eating utensils, only for surgical instruments. Sterilization takes place at 212 degrees plus pressure.

Setting water heaters at less than 140 degrees is dangerous, set them to 140 degrees and temper the water for anti scald by other means.

By the way when was the last time you took some tap water to an lab for testing. You would be shocked what they will tell you.

How many have sump holes in the basement? I wonder what is in that sump hole. Take it for a test you will be shocked by what they find. One I had tested had gasoline in it, found a tank at gas station 10 blocks away leaking gasoline into the ground water. You could take a small cup and the gasoline floating on top of the water would ignite. That call came in as a gas leak call.

Dave Yates (PAH)

hyperchlorination

Works fairly well in hot tubs and spas if adequately maintained. Ozination does a remarkable job & if UV is added with a low GPM constant flow during "off" cycles, you'll eliminate more than just Legionella. Here's an article I wrote for Smart Homeowner Magazine.

Bacteria Stew and the Hot Tub Goo

Like most people who get a hot tub, I gave little thought to bacterial issues and water quality monitoring received but a passing nod. The literature regarding our Ozinator led me to believe that it and the additional self-metering built-in Bromine tablet dispenser were all that I needed to have a perpetually fresh and sanitary oasis awaiting my aching bones. Large enough to accommodate six comfortably, we reveled in soaking under snowy skies while rushing waters rinsed away the day's harried pace. Following the Midnight Christmas service, we would rush home to soak and listen to the plaintive wail of the steam whistle in downtown York playing Christmas carols.

But then it started: the odors began to subtly irk my subconscious; foaming along the edges took on a life of its own; chemicals were added; pH tests became a daily occurrence and still - I had a nagging feeling something wasn't right. As a Master Plumber, I should have known better and I started to think this through with the basic logic that makes up so much of what we do in my trade.

First of all, this ain't your Momma's pool! I'd assumed a hot tub was no different than a pool, but when you compare the volume of water between the two as it relates to body mass, you'd need to have about six hundred people using your pool while it only takes two to approximate the same ratio in a hot tub. If you've ever had six hundred kids in your pool, you'll already know what havoc that wreaks on the chemical balance. There's also the temperature difference that doubles the chemical reactions for every ten degrees F increase.

And there are good reasons why just two bodies can create rapid chemical changes within the hot tub's environment. We're covered with residual soaps; perfumes; deodorants; dead skin; loose hair; and we sweat in hot water! As much sweating as with any strenuous work out, which is also one reason why times in hot water should be limited. Hard to believe you can get dehydrated while soaking in water, eh? But, there's the butt thing too. What you sit on becomes washed while luxuriating in the hot tub. Best to be real good friends! Funny how the sign at the pool requests you shower first, but we all plunk our butts into a hot tub without a second thought. I'd mention the nose snot thing and other bodily fluids too, but you're likely to be grossed out enough already. Did I mention toe jam?

What are all the dead skin, sweat, and bodily fluids going to do for a hot tub environment? Give rise to potential bacterial growth. If you ignore simple routine maintenance, you'll be setting up a bacteria stew that feeds upon the hot tub goo. There's that legionella thing again and this time, we're providing the ideal temperature ranges too. With fecal matter, there's the matter of Cryptosporidium, Giardia, E coli, and Shigella. Rounding up our basic intro to bacteria is Pseudomonas Aeruginosa, a bacterium that revels in hot tub environs, which typically results in skin rashes and can be deadly in rare cases.

Changing the water somehow seems somehow foreign, but the formula goes like this: No more than 30 days between water changes or divide 1/3 of the volume by the number of daily users to arrive at the frequency of complete water changes. Filters must be changed - no less than twice a year & preferably more often. Harsh cleaning with pressure washers or chemicals can destroy good filter performance. If you start out on a daily monitoring program and avail yourself of classes gladly taught by local hot tub dealers, you can easily avoid the bacterial stew and hot tub goo.

Then there are those hotel whirlpool tubs whose distribution piping and pump hold remnants from the previous occupants. Honey, did you remember to pack that gallon of Clorox?



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Frankie_2

New Dishwaher

"Washing dishes, silverware, trays etc. handwash cycle must be 140 degrees, second rinse 140 + and final rinse 180 for santitization????"


I just installed an new dishwasher in my house... Maytag Quiet series 300... It states 120 degree maximum.....why not the 140 ?

rich pickering

If I remember correctly, in the town of Walkerton,Ont. ,they never could shock the water lines with enough chlorine to kill all the e.coli. They had to replace a lot of the lines.

scrook_2

it's not...

a commercial dishwasher so doesn't need to meet commercial foodservice health codes (these often will have an external booster heater installed on their waterline in addition to an internal heater to boost the water to 180-190°F for final rinse), it may also expect to see 120°F +/- water, as is typical for current residential codes, and may have an internal heater to warm the water more, perhaps to 140°, but I'm not sure why the firm restriction to 120° max.

Unknown

Frankie, I think they are

telling you that the minimum temp you want to send to your dishwasher is 120 degrees. The dishwasher will internally increase temps to meet the bacteria removal level. It is also important every so often to run the dishwasher thru a clean cycle with a little clorox or you can buy cleaners that are recommended for that purpose. It is also a good idea to follow the instructions for the dishwasher as to the type of dishwashing detergent to use as that is also part of the santizing of the unit and the dishes. In my house we pre-rinse dishes before placing them in the dish washer just makes it easier in the end. The dishwasher is not a garbage disposal and excess food and etc will clog it up.

steve_26

sic

I'll never sit in a hot tub again.
I just ate dinner and I think it's coming up....THANKS.

steve

[Deleted User]

thanks dave,

i dont think i will ever desire to get in a hot tub again...

Dan M

......oop ! drop that "E"

Tony Conner

I Believe...

... that the concern was that a lot of the older cast or ductile iron water mains had corrosion carbuncles, and that nobody could be sure that the chlorine would penerate every little nook and cranny. (If you add enough chlorine, you can kill anything - including the people you're trying to protect. But the chlorine actually has to GET to the organisims to kill them.) A lot of what got done in the aftermath of the water system disaster in Walkerton was likely overkill, but when a whole town of several thousand people gets sick from the municipal water supply, scores have to be flown out to larger & better equipped hospitals in larger centres, and half a dozen people actually DIE, then everybody errs on the side of caution.

The Walkerton mess was a series of errors, incompetence, neglect and fraudulent record keeping that spanned about 30 years. The situation chugged merrily along for decades, until an event occurred that's tough to accurately predict - a huge thunderstorm dumped a record amount of rain on the area. Then the dominos started to fall...

And hot tubs just give me the willies. They have for years.

Dave Yates (PAH)

absolutely

not! Mixing business with pleasure & the wife can't say you never help with the dishes(G).

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Dale

Some thoughts

If you think about how hot the water is coming out of a shower head, much of it we breathe as mist why are't we all dead? The dishwasher needs the hotter water for soap effectiveness and to kill the bacteria left on whatever touched the raw chicken. I like the newer dishwashers that have preheaters. Washing clothes should be in hot water if you wash underware or kitchen towels or dish cloths, guess where the bacteria sources are. Speaking of sumps, we had some that tested very high for CO , seems there was blasting in the area and the blast gasses from the fuel oil and fertilizer were forced into the sump from rock seam layers. Always something new.

Cliff Brady

Some more thoughts

My dishwasher has "Automatic Water Heating" which I wonder if it is thermostatically controlled? If it is, it seems it would make sense from an energy conservation viewpoint to feed it with 130-140 degree water to lessen the electricity used heating the water and to take advantage of the natural gas heated (an indirect in my case) water.

I am actually doing this now and have seen better performance from the 1980's dishwasher and have also seen improvements in laundry when HOT water is called for. Of course there is a mixing valve for the rest of the fixtures at about 115 degrees. Mixing valves should be part of any domestic hot water 'system', IMHOO.