Gypcrete or joist trak

Joe F

The answer to your flooring question is all of the above. R values from .4 to 2.5. I also have no experience with Quick Trak, but I am familiar with the product. Does that give a real solid floor like gyp? The floor loads run as high as 19.3btu/ft2/hr in a room where my heatloss sheet says I need 1000 btu/hr supplemental. I still don't understand that part. With a 2.5 Rv floor and 150° water, I can get 25 btu/ft2/hr which is plenty. Maybe I am limiting myself by only having 3 water temps on this job. Gypcrete might allow me to have fewer water temps and control with tube spacing instead, which might be an advantage. Is there a good way to overcome all of the recalculating of the layout when the owner wants to change something this drastic?

Joe F

Gypcrete or Joist Trak

I am working with a homeowner who is doing his own general contracting. When we went through the original design of his house he wanted gypcrete, but it would be too cold in January to truck it in and pump it. He has had trouble getting work done on time, so the floor won't be ready until march-april timeframe. Now he wants to go back to gypcrete because "its the best", but his floor trusses aren't built to handle the weight. He would have to reinforce the trusses with plywood on each side, which would make the machanical work a pain in the rear. I want him to go with joist trak, which we already have on site and saves him $5000. The only problem is, I have no experience with joisttrak, so I can't put his concerns to rest about it's performance or the quality diference between a gypcrete floor and a suspended wood floor as far as sound deadening and the solid feel that you get with gypcrete. It's the last house this guy will ever build, so I want him to be happy. Any experience with Joisttrak out there?

kevin coppinger_4

flooring choice

what is he using for flooring...wood, carpet,tile? A good other option would be Quick Track(wirsbo) or Climate panel(stadler)...kind of is the best of both...I think. kpc

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hr

What's the heat load

and most importantly floor coverings? Both dry and wet systems have plus and minuses.

Gyp sure does provide a nice even temperture spread, adds mass, fireproof, sound control, seals cracks along sill plates, etc. You have mentioned a few of the minuses, weight, cost, cold weather.

Dry systems from below, or on top, with heavy gauge transfer plates are a nice choice. Look into ThermoFin brand. Have the sills plates been doubled up for the gyp pour? Will you have to pack up the floors to make doors and windows ROs work? If so keep in mind the additional lumber and plywood will add dead load to the floor framing if it is in fact borderline now.

Make sure with dry applications that the method you chose will adequately meet the heating load. Do you have a room by room heat loss calc? Including finished floor coverings.

There are a few third party testing results out there regarding "real" output limits for various dry methods including, staple up, suspended tube, and transfer plate applications. Contact the RPA for a copy of the ASHRAE/ KSU/RPA study.

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Tim Doran

Call Us

We can double check your calculations and work through the details of installing joist trak. We even have field technicians that can come out and provide on site training if you wish. 1-800-321-4739 ask for tech services.

Tim D.

Justin Gavin

Just Food For Thought

Have you ever read Dan's Book H20?

One of the points in his book is if the customer wants something give it to him and work around what they want.

Even though it might be hard for you to do what he really wants it will make all the world to him.

The Pros outweigh the cons. He wants Gypcrete for more reasons than just heat. The first time he hears any noise from the suspended joists heating and contracting of the tubes and the plates which are minimal but still evident he is going to have second thoughts if not regrets. Than he might turn from a paying customer to a disgruntled customer because you talked him out of it because you thought it was a pain in the keester to install. I am not saying that you are wrong in trying to offer him an alternate system. Give him the option and don't try to talk him out of anything. Let him make the decision. Also do you really want to try something that you never installed before on this job? It could come back to bite you and you might lose $$$ on the training curve and added expense of trying something different.

If you do alot of radiant you will have other opportunities to try something new. He already has it in his head that he wants the solid floor, the sound proofing, the even heat at lower temps yadah yadah.

I agree with you and most of us will that you are looking out in his best interests and in this situation he might see the light and agree with you but just offer it up to him and let him make the decision. Because if you put a Qwick Trak system in you can still sound proof under the joists if need be. If he wants a more solid floor he will also get that from the qwik trak as well because of the extra layer of plywood. So if you present the benefits of qwik trak to him and how he can possibly save with the qwik trak and soundproofing (under the joists)and still give him what he is looking for than maybe he might go that route.

But whatever you do don't tell him not to put the gypcrete in because it will make your job more difficult. He is probably paying you a good bit of Ka-Ching because he has confidence in your ability don't let him down by telling him it is too difficult.

Good Luck,

Justin

Joe F

Gypcrete or Joisttrak, or whatever..

Thanks for your feedback. I like your "customer is always right" perspective. My largest concern on this job is his resentment later if we don't go with gyp. I think he would always wonder if gyp would have been better, and resent not chosing it if ever there was a noise issue. I think I have enough information to go back to him with, as well as some excellent perspectives. Thanks to all who responded.

hr

Be interesting to see

how gyp stacks against QuickTrac, installed cost wise!

I suspect a lot depends on room size and shape with QuickTrac. Gyp doesn't mind octagons, odd angles or round room shapes! I've also heard it called "slow tedious trac" here on the Wall, in the case of odd room shapes

Personally I have yet to try one. An adversion to small diameter tube, special fittings, loop length restrictions, and high head pumps, I suppose :0

You are doing the right thing by asking questions and exploring options. I'm a fan of the least amount of supply water temperatures to simplify control and mixing expense.

Add all the supply temperatures together, divide by the number of temperatures to get an average. Group together ones that fall within 10 degrees of one another, is one rule of thumb.

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