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What do you pay your after hour on call techs?
Comments
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Frankie, if the true issue here is your being on call when you would rather not be, it is time for you to have a "heart to heart" with the boss. If your no longer happy doing "on call" rotation then it is time to stop. If the boss values you as an employee then he will make accomodation for you, if he doesn't, then it is better that you move on anyway. Just don't let your mouth write a check your butt isn't ready to cash. Going out on your own sounds like a super idea until you are really there, it is not a step to be taken lightly or in haste. It takes a lot out of your life to be "the man" running the show, much more than you might realize. It is not all peaches and cream for the boss, yes he might live a bit higher on the hog than you do, but he is paying a price for that, a price that most people are unwilling or unable to pay. Talk with your boss, if you are an asset to him, he will work through this with you, if not, then one of two things prevail: either you are not as important to the company as you might have hoped, or you may have over estimated the level your own importance. If either of those are true, then it is in both of your interests to set the record straight, or to move on to another place of employment. Before you do anything rash, maybe taking a week in the sun, sipping on a few cold ones and getting a refreshed attitude might be the real answer to your current difficulty. Good luck with what ever you decide to do.0 -
Eye openers
I do believe; from the resounding silence of the other camp; THis is becoming an eye popping experience. Wadda ya think MD ??
Tim0 -
boiler guy
Perhaps Frankie is shopping for a truck? Best Wishes J.Lockard0 -
New business
I'd be willing to donate one of Ellens books to get him started. Definetly more important at this point than a wrench. I have a suggestion for a Name- "9-5 Heating. We Fix It When We Want" Then his new employees won't be burdened with that pesky pager. Or he can just pay his night crew to sit and wait for the phone to ring. Since it will be their regular hours he won't even have to pay overtime. But I'm sure he will offer higher wages for second and third shift. Ya know, if the 9-5 hours don't work out.0 -
How much is the pay
Heck I been through worst ? That me installing a outdoor sensor
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Franks....
........most likely on a call or sleeping like the rest of us. Man is this a cold long winter. Been working 10-18 hours a day /seven days a week for a month now . Yes I had two days off recovering from a sprain ankle, dang ice... Hopping around with a air cast , great device... Not ragging . I sent the wife and kid up for the weekend sking.I was going to play hookie but felt guilty . Hope they are ok with out me....Sign
Where am I going with this ? I better go take my shower..... 0 -
Know it all!!
Let's start by saying I HAVE NOOOO LIFE. say it. Cause I don't. Pipe IS my life. I've helped over 100 people get licensure in the state of NJ, both Master P's as well as Inspectors lic..A funny thing happens when you get it. You think you know as much as me, but you don't. The only thing thats changed is that you now posses the MINIMUM skills required to become a licencee. You don't know any more today than you knew yesterday. The only thing different is that tiny piece of paper. You wanna see if the grass is greener? Well don't let the door hit you in the ****. My spin on this thread is I'm a true beliver in that you make your own conditions in this world. If your miserable, It's your own dam fault. I've owned a business for over 25yrs, and ya know what YOU can have it. I was much happier years ago doing controls and if I could have stayed, I'd still be there making 100+ WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE. My advice is this GO BACK TO SCHOOL!! it's never too late. You can be the best mechanic the world has ever seen, but ya know what? If you don't posses the business skills, YOU AINT GONNA DO SWAT.. I'm sorry if i upset anyone.. BOBBY O0 -
Flex time???
I've thought about talking with the guys and seeing if any would want to work wednsday thru sunday and have mon and tues day off. If it worked out it would cut down on the on call problem. Also thought about noon to 8:00. I could offer the customer a nonovertime service and keep after hours call to a minimum. The reality is I'm in to small of town and have to small of company to make it work. It sounds good. Maybe with some tweaking it just might work.0 -
labor board
Its in the employment rules that they agree to and sign to get the job. they are free to leave at any time that they decide to change their mind.The open door works both ways0 -
on being on call
It's a necessary evil or blessing - depends on how you look at it. Service businesses provide the services wanted or they get their lunch eaten by those who do. I take all Mon thru Thurs nights and the mechanics rotate through weekends and holidays. That way everyone gets to have a life outside of work and they're not on call but one weekend in two months. On top of that I offer as much flex time as our schedule permits. Overtime can be banked to fill in time, buy tools, take vacation or cash in at any time & 1 hr of ot does = 1.5 hrs in the bank. 401K is there to use & we contribute to their fund even if they do not. If properly used, an apprentice entering the trade can retire at millionaire status (by today's standards). In return for being willing to share the on-call, all who do take a company truck home. If they need to use my truck for picking up lumber, etc. for a home project, all they need to do is let me know.
But, if someone doesn't like being on call - much less 24/7/365 - then going it alone is not the answer in this business.
Another shop's ace repair mechanic stopped in to interview for a job. Good repair mechanics command premuim wages. When we got to the part about being on-call, he informed me that he never eats lunch and goes home 1/2 hour early every day; does not work one minute past that 4 PM deadline; and doesn't do on-call. When I asked him why not, his reply was that since I owned the business, all on-call should be my responsibility. End of interview. I need team players who understand the value of the services we provide and who grasp the concept of retention where those customer accounts are concerned.
And I'll tell you this. I did try doing all of the on-call work for several years. That worked sort of ok when I was a one-man band - with the exception of being called out whenever we tried to make plans to go out! But with a full house of mechanics and tens of thousands of customers to serve, I had no personal life any longer. I asked the men for an equitable and fair plan and our current on-call system evolved.
Each mechanic has the authority to refuse a call based upon several things: not a regular customer - tomorrow or Monday will do; dead beat cust - forget about it!; get verbally abusive with our on-call guy & you're off the list too. We don't advertise 24-hour service, but we do indicate 24-hour emergency service will be provided for previous customers who maintain a good credit rating with us. 98% of our customers are a delight to work for and don't call after hours for anything that isn't a genuine emergency. Weekend warriors who flub things up wait until Monday (unless they're having a major flood & can't turn off the water) & that's one case where I don't care about losing an account if they can't wait.
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That potential employees name wasn't...
Frankie was it??:-) Just funnin' ya Frankie, but it DOES sound like its time for a change of careers. OT and OC are a part and parcel of the service industry. If you don't play, we don't pay. And there is NO law that says you must play...
BTW, I handle 90% of after hours service by myself. My partner handles the balance.
ME0 -
change job
hey frank time to change job.
I agree with what was stated previously. some other issue other than money.
I've been on call for 20yrs,Do I love it? NO.But thats the job I chose and it's been good to me.
You make it sound like your hanging over the phone afraid to leave the house when on call...Go it alone or go in house
7 to 3:30..
I have no sympathy for this subject what so ever..
Steve
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The silence is deafening
it speaks volumes. Hey Frankie ...you are doing better than I am...I don't own a boat,, and if I did I wouldn't have time to go out on it anyway. As I said I've been on both sides. The last company I worked for gave me the pager all the time without any standby pay. The guy was paying my familes health bennies and 401 k. It was the least I could do for the company. Mad Dog0 -
Frank... sounds like it's time you make a change.
Not a career change, but a company change.
Unfortunately, all companies want trained PROFESSIONALS, but beware of the ones that continue to say," that's how we've always done it".
Do they still tune those burners by eye??? I'll bet they don't, so some things do change for the better.
Why can't respect for their trained service techs be included?
I can't speak for those that have responded negatively to you, but, I think I'm worth more than $1 per hour!!!
Why is it they demand loyalty to them, but never seem to reciprocate to us?0 -
A plumber friend once told me......
.....whatever you are doing now is easier than being self employed!
I am an ex-oil technician who continues to lurk and keep tabs on the industry. I spent eight years getting my head kicked in from 1982-1990. I loved the work (during daylight hours). I despised the night work. During that time, there were many ex-steel workers flooding the trades. When I complained about night service, my boss would tell me "there are ten guys waiting for your job".
I went back to school and left the business. I still miss it (in a strange and morbid way) though!
I enjoy keeping tabs on how the business has changed. I still think techs are underpaid though.
Everyone needs someone who can fix stuff! You have many more opportunities than you think!!!!
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on call
Great post, very informative. I run a small PAH business in upstate NY. I saw a gap in the service end of the business when the local oil companies started giving it up [losing money?]. When I offered it to my customers it quadrupled my volume.Many folks want to know you will be there for them 24/7 for emergencys, especially the elderly. I pride myself on being able to do 98% of the necessary repairs out of my truck. Of course being a one horse show means allways being on call. With a long cold spell like we just had it can get tough mentally and physically. I knew this was part of the service end of the business when I got into this. The great part is most folks pay the bill and thank me for being there for them. Just some thoughts on this thread. Oh and tell Mad Dog that our only good pizza shop just closed and I'm dying for a good NY pizza!
Gary from Granville0 -
the last guy
who thought I was making ALL the money is now on his own... I heard the other day he's CHARGING 1/2 my rate! Good Luck !!! He was always "tied up" when I needed him on a Saturday and I never asked for a Sunday. He also used to call in if it was real hot or real cold out. I keep 2 installers going with the service work and new work calls I handle. I don't advertise 24 hr service, but do selectively. I've been in business for over 21 yrs and most of the time enjoy every day. Last Winter I went 13 weeks w/o a whole day off. I don't own a boat. My employees have newer vehicles than I do. I write quotes and bills at 2 A.M. I was a single parent for almost 10 yrs. and managed to help with LL and Cub Scouts by being flexible.
We all have our "Cross to bear" and you need to look for the blessings you have and either quit crying a river or quit the line of work you're in.0 -
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Tony... just curious, why do you stay in business for yourself?
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know what the benefits are?
thanks0 -
Great Points!
Dave, I think you have some great managment ideas. The boss does have to do their share of the feild work, if for no other reason than to keep your head in the game. But you can't do it all. I know way too many hard working guys who end up working thamselves into poor health only to leave the rewards for others to enjoy.
I don't get paid a ton of money, but I enjoy the work and appreciative customers makes all the differnece. I'd really like to tell the dead-beats and belligerent people to take a hike, but I don't get much support back at the shop. Does the boss really make money by making me go out at night to bring oil to someone who is JUST NOW giving me a post-dated check for the oil I brought last time? I don't get paid extra for after hours work and that makes me feel like my time isn't worth much.
I always tell the guys I work with that if I were the boss we wouldn't be dealing with people like that and we'd have all the best tools. It would be the best two weeks on the job.
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Can't speak for tony
but I can tell you why I do it.
I spent 17 years employed by the largest independant HVAC contractor in the Northeast. I bought, with my own money, books about what I love to do. I went to Dan Holohan's classes, again with my own money.
When I saw how things were SUPPOSED to be done and compared them with the way we were TOLD they should be done, I had to choose.
I believe in personal responsibility. If a system doesn't work, IT IS MY FAULT. If a system works perfectly, IT IS MY FAULT.
I answer to no-one but the customer. We set the standard.
Tony hits only a tip of the iceberg, and he knows it, when it comes to going out on your own.
The owner of the last company I worked for drove the company into the ground. He skimmed HUGE amounts of money to pay for a 174 acre farm he bought. In fact, I had to buy the material for the last boiler replacement I sold for them because they were on credit hold with EVERY vendor in the area.
I will never allow my financial security to be controlled by another person as long as I live.
I will never allow my professional code of ethics to be controlled by another person as long as I live.
I will never allow an accountant to do the job of an engineer. (No I am not an engineer, but we all "engineer" systems.)
I will never allow an engineer to do the job of an accountant.
I will never sell or install a "down and dirty" system.
I could go on with the rules, but the short of it is this. This is my company. It stands or falls on what I do.
I do what I do because I love it.
If you ever saw the movie "Braveheart" you will remeber the scene when the Irishman comes to join up. He states, "It's my Island", someone says, "Ireland?", and he answers "Yah, it's mine"
Comfortable Home Technologies, it's mine.
Mark H
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Way to go, Tony...don't worry - he will fail
within 2 years - guaranteed. Mark Hunt taught me that when you are the boss....you are the a-hole, meaning that you are the a-hole that has to hire & fire...you are the a-hole that says you gotta work late tonight...you are the a-hole that says NO! you can't take 2 weeks off during the heating season...you are the a-hole when it is time to collect the money from some "cute" customer that tries to string you along...you are the a-hole who says, Rip it out and do it again....AND you are the a-hole that tries to get a little break once in a while and asks the guys to take the beeper home once in while. Mark (and I now,too) gives them this speech as he hires them - just so its clear. My problem when I first started was being too generous and lax with employees. I learned the hardway, now everything is run like a military organization...no gray area: black & white. Things flow pretty smoothly, now, Mad Dog
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ahhh!!! Granville...1936 Horse of the year
son of 1930 Triple Crown Winner, Gallant Fox. My Granfather helped train both of them. Where is that exactly? Gimme your address, I'll fed ex you a real NY pie...I'm seroius. Mad Dog
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No Mark
NO Farm Just a Little 3 bed 2 bath hut, No boat I do like to go tubing at Harper Ferry (rent tubes) just two trucks, lots of really nice customers. OH I got one of them CO detectors to keep'em safe. Thanks to you keep pounding the drum Best Wishes J.Lockard0 -
Here, Here,
to Mark and Mad Dog. Raising the bar in business and personal ethics. I have your enthusiam. I wish I had your knowlege.
Gary from Granville0 -
Having been on both sides of the fence , I certainly understand the responsibility a business owner has.
Especially the times you have to work for nothing... that's the cost of being the BOSS.
Fortunately, the IRS gives those same owners tax benefits not offered to employees.
Offering service 24/7 is expensive(and should be charged to customers, by raising service prices), setting and waiting should be the owners choice, not demanded of the employee.
What I can't understand, is how one could ask their employee to work for nothing, then try and justify it by saying, "that's how we've always done it"... "if you don't like it find another line of work"... and you want loyalty from us, try showing some!
Most of the guys that I know in this line of business have homes, families , and lives outside of work.
Maybe the reason so many are whinning, is that their asked to sacrafice their off time with no compensation or reward. This type of behaviour only challenges good employees to venture out on their own.... and who gets hurt, the selfish, self serving owner.( He's the one getting the benefit, not the employee)
It's very difficult to find self starting, loyal, and able employees.
It's time to get out of the dark ages and into the modern.
I'm sure there's a solution to this problem that both sides could agree on , but only if someone actually tries.
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speaking of horses
Mad Dog,
My grandfather owned a small farmet in Huntington Long Island. He was thought to have invented contour plowing. What actually happened was he and the plow horse shared a little too much hard cider, thus creating those beautiful and soil conserving contours.
I actually live about 45 minutes from the Saratoga race track/Casino. It is 1.5 hours NE of Albany a stones throw from the Vermont border. Its a little town called Granville, population about 5000 souls.
I am originally from Huntington and moved me and my family up here in 1991.There was some adjusting and culture shock but the two things I missed most[ Aside from friends] is great pizza and bagels. When friends come to visit and ask what to bring we always ask for bagels. If pizza could travel we would ask for that too! Our friends love to visit but that great NY pizza always draws them home. As long as there are some bagels left when they leave I guess I will have to live with that.
I find your and Marks posts interesting and can tell you both have masters degrees in the school of hard knocks. I am intimidated by your experience and knowledge. If you would like to visit during racing season you know what you can bring-pepperoni, mushrooms and extra cheese, Ahhhh my mouth is watering allready. Thanks for your offer and making me laugh.
Gary from Granville0 -
Employee benefits
Lets see : employees got the boat, boss not, employee drives new truck, boss older pickup, employee gets paid on pay day, boss has to wait till the customer pays,and if there is any money left after paying workmans comp., liability ins, social security ,IRS,health insurance for the employees and all their sniffling doctor visiting brood, and paying for the trucks, materials, tools, advertising, phone and what ever it takes to open the doors, so the employee can walk in and say pay me for my presence. Its a two way street, you must give to receive.No one is entitled to anything. Define the scope of the job and do it or walk, its a free world.Did you bring in more work into the company so there is more money for the company to give you the goodies you expect for the pleasure of your presence. or do you refuse extra work,oncall,etc. cause your scrambling to steal from your boss and other contractors, doing side work for a lot less money then a legitimate shop.0 -
FRANK?
Hey! Where is FRANK?? must be taking more pictures of that boiler that he snaged from his boss.0 -
Steve,
Very well put. I agree with what you are saying.
When you are self employed you work long hard hours but you recieve the reward and satisfaction of a job well done and further the trust and relationship with your customer.
When you work as an on call tech for some one else , you are seldom appreciated and Expected to put up with the crap from the customer while the owner is skiing or boating for the week end.
Most of my older customers would never dream of calling in the middle of the night. They wait until morning or until Monday. These are the ones you want to help , You should have called!
Then you have the pain the a-- 's who call just because they have a service contract and usually for nuisance stuff.
I took my on call way too serious when I started out. I finally burned out and decided that there was life outside of work. Sometimes I go away on weekends, it is actually fun. Now 30 yrs since high school , I am a college freshman. WHY?, because I can and because I am not on call every other week end and every other day of the week.
My dear old retired dad keeps telling me that you can't buy back one single Saturday that you spent working. He worked 60-70 hrs a week and he wished he did more hunting and fishing because now the arthritis and hip and knee replacements really limit what you can do.
Projects at home never got done. I had to pay people to do things because I had no time because I was at work. You have to strike a balance. Too many hours will burn you out physically and mentally . Every one around you will suffer too. Your family won't want to be around you , your employer wiil have a less effective technician and your customer won't get the best job.
The japenese society had a big burnout in the 90's and I think we are next in the U.S. Time to slow down and get healthy, you will be happier.0 -
Well, let's see.............
I take all of the after hours call for my company. 24/7. Before that, I spent 15 years of every third night and every third weekend taking care of thousands of clients for the company that put up with my eccentricities and provided me with a roof over my head. All of this with no stand-by pay what-so-ever. After hours work is part of the deal.
I feel for you, Frank. But don't think being self employed is going to get you out of after hours work. I'm sitiing here in the office on Sunday morning getting caught up with office stuff so I can go back to work tomorrow. Wait a minute! I don't feel for you that much ;-)
hb
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I hope your just kidding...the boat, a new truck,what are you talking about???????
Employees normally get paid on pay day... don't they??
Most of the things you've mentioned are normal operating expenses for any business, born by the employer.
Are you suggsting that it's your employees fault that that you have these expenses?
What 2 way street are you talking about?
We get hired to do a job for either a salary or hourly rate, and normally get paid at the end of the week.
All I'm saying is that an employee should get paid for what he does... if the customer doesn't pay the employer that's between them!!!
The employee shouldn't be penalized!!!
Please explain what goodies we expect and why it is our job to find business for you( I will assume you're an employer).
Are you suggesting that all employees steal from their boss, do side jobs, etc. That's just slap in the face to all the honest techs out there.
Maybe if more businesses ran their companies like a business rather, than their own bank account , we wouldn't be having this conversation!!!!!
Sounds to me your one of those guys more interested in counting money rather than running your business.0 -
Mark said it well
> Tony... just curious, why do you stay in business
> for yourself?
>
> I'm not trying to be sarcastic,
> I really want to know what the benefits
> are?
>
> thanks
I never said I worked ALL DAY those 13 weeks, or EVERY night at 2 A.M. I wrote bills, etc. I'm quite flexible and it's MY CALL to go out or not.
You miss the part where I said I enjoy it most every day ?0 -
Mark said it well
I never said I worked ALL DAY those 13 weeks, or EVERY night at 2 A.M. I wrote bills, etc. I'm quite flexible and it's MY CALL to go out or not.
You miss the part where I said I enjoy it most every day ?
My work is a big part of who I am. If you only work to pay the bills and you aren't happy doing what you do, I pity you. How lucky can I get ? I love what I do and how I do it and I get PAID for it ! Plus, I have had dinner out paid for by appreciative customers numerous times and usually a free drink or two by bar owners I service. EVERY time I'm out I see smiling faces. It's not "just" work, and they're not "just" customers.
Oh, I've had a boat and newer vehicles and other material "trophies". I found out I don't need them to be happy with my life (although it was a forced lesson).
"It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have" and just as importantly, what you need.
Someone farther down the thread used the word entitled. THAT is a REAL hot button too. You're entitled to be paid for what you do, not what you're waiting to do. Carrying a pager is picayune. The world owes no one a living.
I've ranted enough.0 -
Yeah wassup B?
Where you at? MD
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Very interesting...are you up by Porter's Corners?
Gimme some towns that are nearby....YEp Me and Mark and straight up guys that do NOT suffer fools gladly...But we are nice chaps with families..I can speak for both of us...we never did any time in the joint or anything, we're just hardcore dudes. I got family in Saratoga, and spent every summer of my lie there with the hosses...Hunt Lives in Ballston Spa. I'll bring REal Pizza from New Park Pizza, Howard Beach Queens, the best Neopolitan in NEW YORK, I'll bring clams too and white castles hamburhgers...you and Hunt get the beer. I used to go to Saranac Lake every august to play in the world's largest Rugby Tourney - had to retire. still miss it Mad Dog
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Two sides to every story.
Listen, pretty much everyone has good points to their story, but the bottom line is that we all do what we do to make money and feed our families. Some guys are brave enough to go out on thier own and they should be compensated for doing it well. Some guys (myself) are better at being employees. Not becouse I lack the commitment, but because I have anger managment issues - specially w/ loud-mouthed dead-beat jerks. I'd end up in jail AND broke. But I am loyal and willing to work on-call time for the salary I agreed to. I work hard for my company and I should be compensated for doing it well.
I feel it's MY resposability to be happy with what I have/get. If I do an install it's my responsability to do the job I agreed to. It's my boss's responsability to pay me the wage he agreed to. It's the customer's responsability to pay the price he agreed to.
If I buy a new truck with my money (an a lot of the banks) that's my business. If the boss spends his money on a ski trip, that's his business.
dan0 -
EH MD
Good to see ya back in here. I thought you were pissed at me or sumpin' Couldn't figure what I might have done.
I haven't had much time to be in here the last week -- ON CALL FOR LITTLE PAY ..EH (LOL) This -55 sh*! sure takes it's toll on everything. I was on the roof in a -67 windchill last Tuesday. I was truly thankful parts were not available right away!! Got the equipment running on Friday PM. I was almost dressed too warm -- it was only -14 - no wind. Wish I had more boilers to hide beside. I got you number today. What is the best time to call you. You can mail me direct with another # if you like.
I know I got off the topic a bit, but our industry does try to take advantage of a lot of their people. I think it has a lot to do with what a person makes of things for themselves. Unfortunately it is human nature for some to take unfair advantage .. but ... you know the saying ... What goes around comes around. I could complain too but I still like the challenge and interaction with the customer. I just do not want to deal with all the other stuff. Been there, done that and now having fun just doing the work.
Enough ranting0 -
Hey Tim, I guess you never saw my post
computer crashed for 3 weeks...just got hre back call me or email. MD
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I can't believe the whining
You know I was really intrigued. I just spent about 30 minutes reading the posts to this thread.
I read some great things from techs and owners alike.
I am still relatively young (30).
I have been in this business for about 7 years now. I have been involved in all aspects from sweeping the floor to designing and running jobs.
I have worked for large corps and small shops and have had a taste of all types of management.
I learned about boilers in the Navy from a technical aspects and got into the business end of things when I got out. I don't know if the military hours 12 on 12 off with 24 hour watch every 4th day for 5 and half years has trained me to not whine about being on call but I am sure it helped.
If you feel you are underpaid or not compensated or overworked than thats your own damn fault! Everything is negotiable. If you are worth a damn your boss will take care of you as you take care of him. I think Frank is jeolous. Furthermore I think Frank probably ain't worth a hoot because if he was worth something his boss would take care of him.
How many bosses out there realize talent, dedication, and loyalty? Maybe if you weren't so self centered and whining all the time (and something tells me you complain at work as well) you would see that you are lucky to have someone that puts up with you instead of you putting up with them!
I love this business and I love the guys that take pride in what they do. I have no tolerance or compassion for those guys that sit and cry about being on call, working too long, or just talk to hear themselves heard. The way I see it Frank its time for you to Sh___ or get off the pot.
Take some pride man in what you know, and what you are worth. Have a heart to heart with your boss and resolve your issues. Don't sit and whine to your fellow wetheads, airheads, and steamheads about how "unfair" your life is because you know what, there is a guy like you in every shop thats out there and we are all sick of hearing your BS.
That is the same guy that ruins every social event, every xmas party, company meeting and brings down the morale of the shop.
If you arent' happy than get out. Because its guys like you that have no business sense, no self respect and no balls that ruin it for the rest of us loyal employees.
Sorry I had to vent on you but for a grown man with 24 years + experience you really disappoint the expectations that are held with someone that has been in the business that long. You are supposed to be a professional. Its time you act like one.
JG0
This discussion has been closed.
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