why isn't CO detector part of boiler/furnace

John Ruhnke1

Tim,

I think that is a great idea!

JR

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Tim Gardner

Why not build the CO detector right into the heating equipment?

Mark Hunt

Good idea

but sensors need to be tested and eventually replaced.

Back to where we started.

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but in my area heating companies and plumbers do not test gas appliances and oil companies only test combustion efficiency.

I hate big government, but sometimes a line in the sand must be drawn.

Those that have attended Jim Davis's course know what I am talking about.

If you really want to see what I am talking about, go put yourself on a Google news alert for CO stories. They will e-mail the stories as they come in directly to you.

In one of the news reports I got recently, a "heating contractor" said that 10ppm CO was normal in a home?

Really?

Well I have a CO experts monitor in my home and 0 CO is normal.

Jim Davis changed my attitude toward what I do FOREVER.

It's MY job to make sure that my customers are safe and not just from the equipment I install. I test EVERYTHING, and if it fails it gets shut down. No exceptions.

I was at a home this morning where we installed a new heating system(see my Taco LWCO post) and the lady of the house told me that I was not her "favorite person" after my first visit. Why? Because I shut their water heater off.

The attached photo will tell you why. Now their oil guy condemned the furnace for a cracked HX, he did a good thing, but what he completely missed was the way the LP gas water heater was vented into the furnace flue. So the customer thinks that the problems are fixed, but in reality they are not.

This is deadly stuff, the most deadly poison in the USA.

BTW, she also said she brags about us now.

Mark H



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Unknown

There have been several

attempts at that by some manufacturers. The problem is that no standard exists for such a device. There are also problems with the long term reliabiblity of CO detection devices.

It is interesting that when we use Flame Safe Guard ultra violet detection on large industrial gas boilers there is very low incident rate on CO. With oil the CAD cell also provides some safe guards.CAD cells cannot be used on gas as they are visible light detectors. Ultra violet detectors for flame sensing are very expensive and would drive the price of furnaces and boilers out of site.

Great idea now all we need is the technology and reliability to make it effective. I would like to see a device that senses flue gas and in the gas arm air furnaces also senses air movement in the plenum for levels of CO. I have actually placed CO detectors inside of several different furnaces Kidde Nighthawks, they only lasted about six months and had to be replaced. I have not tried it with the CO Experts Monitor one of these days I will give one a try. I sleep with one of those at the top of my bed.

Mark Eatherton1

That's UGLY...

and SO obvious.

And you are SO right about the Guru of Partially Burned BTU's. Jim Davis is THE best when it comes to this stuff.

Gotta get him and Timmie together...


ME

Mark Hunt

Jim and Timmie would be a start


How do we get our industry together?

We can argue pump curves and reset ratios all day, no one to my knowledge has died from the wrong size pump.

My concern is what happens when we install CO generators in peoples homes.

Don't want to insult or start a fight here, but just look at the response to the CO posts. What? 5, 6 people?

Where are the photos? Where are the stories like Mr.Smith's?

Again, CO accounts for almost 90% of the accidental poisoning deaths in the USA. More deadly than Drain-o!



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Mark Hunt

Jim and Timmie would be a start

How do we get our industry together?

We can argue pump curves and reset ratios all day, no one to my knowledge has died from the wrong size pump.

My concern is what happens when we install CO generators in peoples homes.

Don't want to insult or start a fight here, but just look at the response to the CO posts. What? 5, 6 people?

Where are the photos? Where are the stories like Mr.Smith's?

Again, CO accounts for almost 90% of the accidental poisoning deaths in the USA. More deadly than Drain-o!

Ah well... here's another stupid picture I took at a house that there was obviously nothing wrong. The "heeter guy" sed so!

Mark H


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Tim Gardner

I don't understand. Why would the detector need to be inside the furnace? Why not just mount it on the front, along with the LWCO or something. Probably could even be wired like the LWCO to cut off the furnace if too much CO detected.

Or are you saying that the CO detectors that they sell in hardware stores are only good for a couple years? I think mine are Nighthawks, several years old. When I push the test button they give the normal alarm. Should I be doing a more aggressive test?

Unknown

A sensor for shutting off

a furnace would have to be monitoring the combustion process it would do no good on the outside of the furnace. As for a LWCO they are only used on boilers furnaces do not require a LWCO (low water cut off).

Most of the over the counter detectors sensors do not last for very long (about two years) and that depends on the environment they are operating in.

Check out www.coexperts.com for a very effective CO detector that is much more reliable unit than the over the counter models. If you want more info contact George Kerr at gekerr@tds.net.

MikeB34

So what is the problem???
(just kidding)
and I like the T&P in the anode opening..is that normal for tht unit? I've never seen 1 there in gas/LP HWH.

csmclean

Informative and Important Subject

Hi, Mark,

I think you're doing a great service here in raising the alert/warning over CO in homes. I'm just a DIY homeowner, but have learned the value of leaving what's beyond my capabilities/tools to the pros.

Makes me wonder how our own local codes compare w/ federal levels; I'm guessing there are quite a few local variances in standards, correct? I haven't studied the new home construction around here much, but guess they are 'tight' homes, and I don't know what they do about makeup air. This is in SW North Dakota, where it can be quite extreme in temperature, even in the middle of winter (not unusual to see a February or March temperature range of about -20 degrees F to +70 F).

Thanks again, and those WH photos are scary!!

Craig