Rethinking the big boxes

Mark Hunt

My supplier totally screwed up a big order today, as in, they didn't send it.

Now I have to tell ya', I find myself almost wishing that HD and the others would get REAL serious about attracting contractors.

You can't drive more than 5 miles in any direction without spotting one, their shelves are always filled, they deliver, what more could I want?

I pay my bills when I get them, I do my best to support the product lines my vendors carry, all I ask is that they BRING THE STUFF TO ME WHEN I ASK FOR IT!

So HD sells to homeowners, so do most vendors.

If HD or an equivalent brought on the products I sell, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

I don't call the suppliers for heat loss calcs, they do not need to come to my jobs to show me how to cable tie Pex down, and they sure as heck don't get phone calls from me asking how something works.

If they screw up or they are late with a delivery, all you get is "we're sorry". How far do you think that would get any of us if we were late with a payment. (I discount my bills EVERY month, NEVER late)

I am blowing off some steam here, but this is getting old.

Where's my Yanni CD's?!?!?!?!

Mark H

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masterplumb

You gotta wonder

Installed a new boiler and 275 gal oil tank this summer. Cold weather comes around and I get a call from the H.O. saying he thought he was running out of oil so he called his oil company to deliver oil and it only took 140 gallons. So I go to his house to inspect it. Turns out they sent the wrong gauge for the tank. I call supplier and he doesnt have the correct ones in stock, "I'll have it tommorow for you". Well here it is 5 days later and still no gauge. I hated to do it but HD had it in stock! The supply houses better wake up! Chris

Bill Nye

At least

You gotta' we're sorry. Sometimes you don't even get that!

Jared M

All too common...

Mark,

We have the same problems ALL OF THE TIME. I was at Wetstock in Denver and we had a huge conversation about this and other issues related to wholesalers there. I am on the east coast and was left with the distinct impression that this situation exists all over the country.

Last week I spent about two hours tracking down a $15 part that should have been delivered Friday morning, but wasn't. I drove myself to another branch to get the part that the computer said was there, at first wasn't on the shelf but they then found about an hour later...at least they called back to say they found it.

Then about a week ago I had to send someone to Warren NJ from upstate NY to get a Taco pump that should have shipped the day before Thanksgiving. My patience ran out when the UPS guy showed up with a replacement MOTOR, I was waiting for the whole PUMP. So I sent someone to the rep office and we installed the pump that evening. (PS, I got home at 8:30 that night). This was for a local firehouse...they were without heat for 4 days because someone can't put a UPS label on a box and ship it!

HELLO PEOPLE...we are in the heating business and it's COLD outside.

Just like you, we pay our bills by the 10th, never ask for "design assistance" (we lay out our own systems, thank you) and never, ever return a part as defective unless it is in fact, defective. And in both of the above examples our company has dealt with these wholesalers for well over 30 years!

-Jared

Thanks for listening to my rants

Steve Ebels

I'm with you Mark

I get so frustrated with distribution that I ruin my cash flow from time to time (like right now)stocking large quantities of parts, whole goods, bits and pieces that I should be able to get from a distributor. As for advice or information on boilers, airhandlers, furnaces and such, FAHGEDABOUDIT!! I don't even bother to call. If need some info on a Buderus or Viessmann product, it is pointless to call their distributors that serve my area. I just call the rep or the factory. The forced air people that know anything are getting fewer and farther between. You have to call the factory tech line for practically anything and sit on hold for 1/2 hour to an hour while they do who knows what. The line between a distributor and Lowe's/HD or a stocking dealer and distributor is getting smaller by the day.

You're lucky that your distributor(s) still deliver. The closest one to me (25 miles away) doesn't even do that! The companies that do deliver come once a week or every other week due to the fact that they are 80-120 miles away.

There's a reason my 2 year old truck has 99,000+ miles on it. Frustrates me to the point of of of of.... I can't say that here.

todd s

Running for parts

Why doesn't one smart supplier start delivering same day with parts runners in small vehicles? The auto stores do this all day long.

Mark Hunt

\"Smart supplier\"?

If only.............

Steve Ebels said it, the line gets thinner every day.

I almost sat on Santa's lap at the mall the other day to place an order. HE always brought what I asked for! AND! It was there the day I expected it!!!!!


I had a "conversation" with the manager of a different supplier the other day. I called looking for something that they were, according to their catalog, supposed to stock. They were out, it happens. He said he would check with HIS supplier and call me back. Three days later, no call. So I call him. When I ask him why he didn't call me back he gets huffy and says "We're real busy". I lost it.

I told him that the reason HE was busy was because contractors like ME are busy and if THAT was an INCONVENIENCE we could solve it right then and there.

I just checked my account with the supplier that did NOT deliver my parts today and guess what.........I have already been invoiced for material that I do not have!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe a HD operative is monitoring this site to see the chinks in the armor?

As Drudge would say, "DEVELOPING"!

Mark H

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Jimmy Gillies

Supplies.

Mark.
We have all the same above problems here in the UK & yes we have a well stocked HD just down the street.
The Supply trade is not addapting as quick as we are, they have poorly paid staff relying on inaccurate computer systems.
Thanks for the chance to rant.
Jimmy Gillies (Scotland)

ScottMP

Mark

Your absolutly right.

I am very lucky in that I have four wholesalers right in my area. My heating supplier is about 40 minutes away and delivers and lives in my town, helps alot.

But guess which supplier gets the most of my business, thats right, the one that answers the phone, delivers on time, goes out of their way to correct a problem, and so on. They get it.

One other supplier wants more of my business. They have voice mail, don't call me when my special order shows up, tell me they have somthing when its not on the shelf, and worst of all after we call up and they say yes we have it, have a counter guy who tells my man " I don't know what your talking about ... ".

And they wonder why my business is small with them.

These guys are digging the grave all by themselves. Just wait till Lowes and the others start competing for your business. The service will be better and the prices will be lower. And then you'll really have to think hard about where you buy.

Scott

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B. Tice

Huh, I'm not the only one.......

I got the same problems here. The overall decline of the wholesale biz is terrible. I never complain about pricing, never ask for help, ....not that they could, anyway. I do have a couple of places that are pretty good, but they don't carry what I need. Oh, I forgot, out the door at 4:25 PM. What, are they a bank???? 4 friggin 30??? Unreal.

Mark Hunt

4:30 stampede!


DO NOT be in front of the door at 4:30!!!

You'd be trampled for sure.

New company name: Frustrated Incorporated.

Mark H

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Dave DeFord

I blame the beancounters....

because I am one. I don't know if you guys know what an EOQ (economic order quantity) is but the bean counters love it. It's the amount of goods that you should order to get the best price etc. Problem is that it only factors the lost profit from lost sales into the equation so a certain amount of out of stock is acceptable It doesn't give a rip about your time or anything else outside of the wholesaler's operation or even the fact that you may go to another wholesaler. I'm with you guys on the out of stock situations. Certain things you need to stock and NEVER run out other things folks expect to have to order. While believe that what I do is very important to the operation of any company you should almost never let an accountant make critical decisions alone. Want an example - look what Roger Smith (he was the VP of Finance before he was President)did to GM in the 80's. The X cars were cheap to make but nobody bought them. The local wholesalers are squandering their competitive edge buy not doing what they do best which is stock their shelves and let you get your parts with a signature. If you have to keep your own stock then why not go to the cheapest source?

eleft(retired)_3

RE. 4:30 stampede!

It's nice to know you guy's are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel of protectionism and start looking out for yourselves.

Mark, the saying is "If you want to see the dead come alive, be here at 4:30"...

Happy Holidays to ALL.

Tony Conner

I Actually Blame...

...the customers (contractors), to a large extent. For years everything has been driven by "low-bid".

The suppliers will only tend to stock what moves, which is reasonable...to a point. Many suppliers have so rigidly adhered to this strategy (and for so long), that their product lines have shrunk to the point that there's not much reason for going there anymore. It's a death spiral. The less you have in stock, the fewer customers you'll get, so the less you stock... If some of these outfits stock any less, they'll cease to exist.

Combine the low to non-existant inventory levels with staff that has been downsized/rightsized/smartsized for the last 10 or 15 years, and here we are. I think a lot of contractors realized a few years ago that the little bit they may be saving from the low-bid suppliers was costing them far more in lost time, but I don't think there is anyone left at most wholesalers who understands this. How could there be? There doesn't seem to be anyone left there who can read "complicated" fractions like 1/2 or 3/4, or even count the number of fittings they've put into the box or bag.

Paul Cooke

I Agree with the Death Spiral Concept

I have found the local wholesalers stocking fewer and fewer parts. When I call in an order they can usually have it in a day or two...but then, there's UPS. So it seems that every year my freight charges are climbing to new heights. Just paid last months invoices and freight charges were over $150.

The town where I do most of my work is fighting with Home Depot about whether or not they will allow them to put a new store here. Population: 50,000. I'm torn on this issue. I don't like HD, but.......

jim lockard

the wait

Sure the free coffee great but its not worth an hour of my time for my friendly counter guy to pull one order at a time when I can go to HD or Lowes or even the local hardware store troll the shelves grab my stuff and go.
This 4:30 closing for a service contractor that refuses to enter the home before 8am and often finds him self still in the home after 7pm is crazy

Radiant Wizard

Wholesaler's

While I work for one I understand all of your frustrations. Take a step back for minute if you would please. While there is no excuse for not delivering material or not having bread and butter items in stock I would like to address some of the issues that plague us.

I know that there are those of you that discount or pay your bill on time but you are far and between. Generally we get carried out 60-90 days so we have to carry the load and then when they do pay they don't want to pay the 2% service charge and they still want to take there 2% discount. What's fair about that? Especially on quoted jobs when your margin is bad enough because you get beat to death over price.

Maybe we should take on some of the aspects of the HD's. I'll charge for delivery. Won't put that boiler, oil tank or water heater in that basement. I won't get up at 2:00 in the morning because my phone went off because you got a no heat call and are to cheap to stock a R8184G.

I could go on and on but my point here guy's is that the street goes both ways.

Dave Heath_2

wholesaler support

Gentleman
I appreciate your comments. I have grave concerns about these comments. I am based in Calgary, Alberta, Canada and feel very strongly about the level of service that is expected from your suppliers. Calgary has a 1 million population base that is serviced by a very dedicted group of qualified wholesaler technical heating staff. We have 7 qualified staff supporting the industry. Our competition has 6 staff, 4 staff, 2 staff, 2 staff and all have the abilities to do their jobs. That totals 21 individuals that have decided to make a career in the hydronic business. In 23 years working in the hydronic field I have built solid friendships with my client base. Things are not always perfect, however we do endevour to provide the best service. It is not always the fault of the Wholesaler on product shortages. Manufactures have issues as well and don't always supply on time. During the heating season manufacturers can delay delivery because demand outstrips production. There will always be issues in the supply line, it just means we all have to work together and communicate to accomplish the same goals.

I have attended Wetstock in both Chicago and Denver and would hope that Wholesalers would always be welcome in such a forum without being attacked and ridiculed.

DH

Dave DeFord

You've got a point..

or more accurately points. I am assuming that you have a computer to do your billing. Most computer accounting systems that I have ever seen have several different discount/pricing tiers that you can set up. My suggestion is that you use them. The good customers get the best pricing the worst customers should pay almost retail price. My point being that there are lots of folks that take advantage of your kindness. Don't offer them a discount and build their interest into their price. When they talk to your other customers and find out that there's a price difference simply tell them that if they paid you like the other guy that got the better price they could get that price too. There is no law that says that all of your customers have to pay the same price or get the same discount. The hard part comes when you have to enforce your terms/discount. I write off about 1% of my billings every year for bad debt so yes I have some feeling for what the pain is like. But I also cut folks off after 60 days -and then they pay their bill.

Paul Rohrs

Wholesale

Wholesale.

Wow, been doing it 15yrs now.

Did a radiant design the other day for a "new" contractor. Design, layout, quote of detailed material list. CAD drawing of electrical and mechanical.

Next day.

"Man, that tube is kind of pricey isn't it?" was the response from the contractor. It went downhill from there. I walked away from the job.He wanted to save pennies a foot on the PEX tube. Total of the tubing was about 900 linear ft. I have 6 or 7 more jobs landing in the interum and am better for it. This guy does NOT typify the professionals I do business with.

A items - things I should always have at ALL TIMES

B items - Things I should have on the shelf

C items - Specialty items that we stock for specific customer needs.

Honestly, I do run out of A,B, & C items on occasion. Take your pick for the reasons;

Manufacturer is out.

Ordered a 4 month supply (based on previous history) that lasted a week.

backordered,backordered,backordered.

We do it right. Our sales have increased 21% because of it. I am proud to be a part of it.

Can any of you tell me how many models of MOEN faucets are available? Now multiply that by the number of finishes available. That is ONE VENDOR.


Heating is easier to service than the plumbing side. That is what I do. I am busy and sometimes have to delegate some of the small (but important) customer service tasks.

I know it does not ease the frustration at times.


regards,

PR

kevin_5

Hey Paul

I still have yet to see that fancy boiler moving cart you claim to have. ;-) Thanks for walking me through the Pro Mix programming again. I think I got it now! Kevin

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Tony Conner

I'm Not Sure...

...that this string an attack on all wholesalers. My post certainly wasn't. But it was aimed at a lot of them. I've made a point of telling several in my area that I don't mind paying a little more, if I can normally count on things being in stock, and it's decent quality. If you deliver that to the contractors that your customers, then I hope you charge enough to stay in business and make a decent profit, because you deserve it.

Mark Hunt

Well


Had I ordered some freakt material, I could understand.

Fact is that what I ordered were IN STOCK ITEMS!

I am sick and tired of hearing the same lame excuses. I pray that HD will start stocking what I sell.

All I want is was I ordered.

My partner told me that no matter what I do, the suppliers will never change.

Well I'd rather go down fighting than take it like the rest do.

I finished working in the field at 10:30 pm this evening, how many folks were at the local supplier then?

I size the job, create a material list, place the order.......

Now what is the suppliers job?

Answer: Put the stuff in a box and send it to the job when they say they will.

That's all.

So am I to assume that the reason I do not get a delivery when it is promised is because of late payers?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

Nah! I pass.

Mark H



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Randy Tibbits

I don't mean to brag but my main supplier is the best. They deliver monday, tuesday and thursday morning before 7 am. They have a key to the back door. I place an order and it is punched into the computer, I know the order status right then. I can order up to 5 pm, none of this excuse about it being to late in the day and the truck is already loaded. Second shift comes in after 5pm and loads their truck. The counter guys know their stuff, I can order a control with a verbal thingamajig description and they get it right. They do goof once in a while but it is so seldom it's not worth complaining much. They are located fifty miles away and use to be contractors. A very organized outfit.

Radiant Wizard

Pricing

Yes I do have a computer systems and yes I have different pricing structures. I even take it 1 step further. I have different tiers of pricing for items. Buy 1-24 3/4" Copper 90's one price/ buy a bag another price and so on. Same goes with alot of items.

MikeB34

I thought

I Thought it was " No one will steal this clock..its always being watched."