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steam system doesn't work right
greg_7
Member Posts: 71
This past weekend I was having a few beers with some friends at the local Ukrainian hall. I asked how the new boilers were working out. I wish I hadn't...
Here's the story:
The club is housed in a 3 story masonary building with a basement that is also finished. I would bet that the place has at least 10,000 sq ft of heated space, including a large two story hall.
It was heated with a fire tube, converted coal boiler that was converted to gas with a 2,000,000 btu burner.
It heated well, but expensively. And it was slowly heating les well.
The system appears to be a version of a one-pipe system, except that most radiators drain into a separte pipe. No steam traps are used. Each radiator has a air vent. At least one rad has only one pipe with no return.
Most of the steam seems down fed as most radiators receive steam on one side at the top and drain on the opposite on the bottom into a separate line. The vent is located on the drain side.
The old headers were left untouched. The system up feeds into two separate runs that split into different areas of the structure and return to the old boiler which was located at the front of the building over to one side. The returns area bove the old water line until they reach the boiler.
The radiator vents are ancient and I saw at least one main vent on the end of a branch that split off in the boiler room. I'm told there are more.
In addition, there are indirect radiators that located in air handlers that flow into the hall.
At least one of these was disconnected, as were a number of radiators in various locations.
They say they have to fire all day to get heat up stairs.
A store room that also has air ducts with a radiator in them, used to get unbearably hot, now never gets warm.
The new boilers are 4 cast Slant Fins that combine for about 1.2 million btus, piped into a drop header.
The new near boiler piping is questionable, aside from the drop header. The 4 units are arranged in a square. The 6" header runs directly over two of the units. In fact, the header is directly over the top riser of the boiler.
Each unit has a hartford loop. However, the 2 1/2" steam riser is turned with a 90 into a tee straight into the equalizer about 24" over the unit the riser then the steam takes off the third leg of the tee and is lead up and into a drop header with a long horizontal run (depending on the unit's location). The equalizer then runs into a 90 and down to the loop on each unit.
The original equalizer comes off the header and runs back to the old loop piping which has been modfied into a straight run along side the units, just under the water line. Each units return drops off the bottom and runs along the floor to wach unit's loop.
The old timers are pissed off at the younger guys who thought they had a better idea. Needless to say the club paid alot for the new units and the install. Now they are thinking of putting hot air furnaces everywhere to compensate.
I loaned them a copy of the Lost Art and they loved it.
Now everybody's thinking steam.
The consensus is to find and replace all the main vents and change all the rad vents.
Some think the new water line, which is about 3 feet under the old line is too low.
And the near boiler piping seems wrong, but it was convenient for the mechanical contractor to install.
And there is no controls for the multiple units. They either fire all or none.
Any more ideas or thoughts
Here's the story:
The club is housed in a 3 story masonary building with a basement that is also finished. I would bet that the place has at least 10,000 sq ft of heated space, including a large two story hall.
It was heated with a fire tube, converted coal boiler that was converted to gas with a 2,000,000 btu burner.
It heated well, but expensively. And it was slowly heating les well.
The system appears to be a version of a one-pipe system, except that most radiators drain into a separte pipe. No steam traps are used. Each radiator has a air vent. At least one rad has only one pipe with no return.
Most of the steam seems down fed as most radiators receive steam on one side at the top and drain on the opposite on the bottom into a separate line. The vent is located on the drain side.
The old headers were left untouched. The system up feeds into two separate runs that split into different areas of the structure and return to the old boiler which was located at the front of the building over to one side. The returns area bove the old water line until they reach the boiler.
The radiator vents are ancient and I saw at least one main vent on the end of a branch that split off in the boiler room. I'm told there are more.
In addition, there are indirect radiators that located in air handlers that flow into the hall.
At least one of these was disconnected, as were a number of radiators in various locations.
They say they have to fire all day to get heat up stairs.
A store room that also has air ducts with a radiator in them, used to get unbearably hot, now never gets warm.
The new boilers are 4 cast Slant Fins that combine for about 1.2 million btus, piped into a drop header.
The new near boiler piping is questionable, aside from the drop header. The 4 units are arranged in a square. The 6" header runs directly over two of the units. In fact, the header is directly over the top riser of the boiler.
Each unit has a hartford loop. However, the 2 1/2" steam riser is turned with a 90 into a tee straight into the equalizer about 24" over the unit the riser then the steam takes off the third leg of the tee and is lead up and into a drop header with a long horizontal run (depending on the unit's location). The equalizer then runs into a 90 and down to the loop on each unit.
The original equalizer comes off the header and runs back to the old loop piping which has been modfied into a straight run along side the units, just under the water line. Each units return drops off the bottom and runs along the floor to wach unit's loop.
The old timers are pissed off at the younger guys who thought they had a better idea. Needless to say the club paid alot for the new units and the install. Now they are thinking of putting hot air furnaces everywhere to compensate.
I loaned them a copy of the Lost Art and they loved it.
Now everybody's thinking steam.
The consensus is to find and replace all the main vents and change all the rad vents.
Some think the new water line, which is about 3 feet under the old line is too low.
And the near boiler piping seems wrong, but it was convenient for the mechanical contractor to install.
And there is no controls for the multiple units. They either fire all or none.
Any more ideas or thoughts
0
Comments
-
I'd like to try to help.
I'm at Slant/Fin Tech service, at 800 873 4346. My extension is 456, and Larry is 454.
Is there a way that you could show the boiler piping with a photo? I'm trying to picture it.
A couple thoughts on the controls, to get us thinking about it. Heat timer makes a steam control that stages the boilers. Vaporstats to drop off boilers on steam pressure is another way. Here's Heattimer.
http://www.heat-timer.com/?page=steamheat
My feeling is that this can be made to heat at least as well as the old setup, if we can identify the trouble.
Can I fax you some info on these systems?
Noel0 -
Greg, with Noel on the job
that system will work better than it did before. If this Ukranian Hall is in the Baltimore area, e-mail me too!
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Lcation and pictures
Steamhead: The building is located in Buffalo, NY. Stop by anyway!
Noel: I will try to get a few pictures this week end and post them. I might try to post some had drawn diagrams tonight.
I got a call into the guys to see if they have any digital pix already.0 -
OK
I'll be here.
Noel0 -
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting0 -
Crude Diagam
In the absence of pictures thus far, I have drawn a diagram of the near boiler piping.0
This discussion has been closed.
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