Yo Boilerpro

Boilerpro_3

the pump circulating the system, not the 2 boiler pumps, it's probably a good idea if you are getting velocity noise now.

Boilerpro

Dan M

Yo Boiler Pro

What do you think of those Grunfoss Pumps with the speed setings as replacment for my Taco 007. "Sounds" like I could slow my water down and maybe be better for my pipes and also quieter.

Thanks
Dan

Dan M

Yep

Thats the one. Not alot of noise but some.

Thanks

dan

Rob T

I just

replaced a noisy B&G 100 with a GrundFos UPS15-58FC and I can't even tell the pump is running when on speed 1. Once I up it to 2 I can just barely hear it from a distance of a couple of feet. It has reduced the overall noise in my piping by at least 50%.

Wish I had done it last year....

R

Dan M

Gundfros pump

Very interesting , I was told that the Gundfros UPS15 is a equvalent swap for the Taco 007. It has three speed settings. I contacted a supplier who instructed me to measure between the Taco flanges to see if the Gundfros will bolt right up ( If I am Lucky)

Thanks for the info !

dan

Boilerpro_3

Space is the same, but

orientation may be different. The motor shaft must be in an horizontal position.

Boilerpro

Allied

Grundfos
http://www.us.grundfos.com/web/Download.nsf/0/683354cff1f4c79088256c240056ffbc/$FILE/L-UP-SL-027.pdf

Allied

Grundfos vs. Taco

Data Sheets and pump curves for the two circulators (PDFs)

Grundfos UPS15-58FC

Taco 007

Art Pittaway

Look again at the curve....

Keep in mind that it is the system that dictates the pump curve, not the color. If you replace a Series 100 in an old large volume system that normally runs at 3 to 4 ft/ht and 24 GPM with a pump that can't do 15 GPM at the same head you won't get heat to the end radiators on that design day. If a B&G Series 100 is noisey, fix it, or look close at the SYSTEM before you put in a UP or 007. The noise is NOT flow related, you need head to produce flow noise and the Ser100 max's at 8 ft. Lots of contractors have been bit by the boiler manufacturers because they sell a small 007 with a boiler. The contractor assumes it was sized for the boiler and will work. Wrong, it's there because it is cheap..! Not because it will work for every application. Step back and look at your SYSTEM and then decide if the pump CURVE matches the application.

Dan M

Curves

Thanks for the education, I printed out the info and will try to do the homework.


dan

Dale

Art's post

Good message there, buy some new bushings and coupler for the B&G, the noilsy 100's I see usually have been overoiled and shot motor bushings and some knucklehead ( Thanks Dan) has put in a solid spring coupler instead of the correct coupler.

Unknown

Hi Art

Although that circulator is a common one on our orders, the boiler is offered with one of several brands and sizes circulators. Manufacturers put on what is ordered by the customer.

By far the most common pump ordered is the one that is sized to serve medium sized baseboard systems. More than half of boilers are shipped that way, I'd estimate.

Noel

Mark Wolff

Grundfos UPS

They are the best circ pump available on the market in my opinion. The 3 speed adjustment is perfect in cases of too fast a flow, they are quieter than any other pump, the screw at the end can be undone while running(it weeps a little) for positive check of pump circulation, and they are overbuilt yet compact.

Also, they do interchange with Taco 00 series pumps. One side note would be to use Grundfos flanges even on Taco 00 series pumps. The Grundfos flanges are much beefier than the Taco and won't crack as easy(overtightening apprentices!)

Mark Wolff

Pumps

Also keep in mind that 70% plus of original installs you are replacing pumps on were sized by the LAR method (Looks About Right), back when overkill really was. I also have yet to see a B&G pump that wasn't noisy head or no head, except when we turn them off to replace them.

Steamhead

Overkill is alive and well

based on many systems I've seen that were way over-pumped.

On a system that was designed for gravity, there's very little resistance (head) to the flow of water. The only thing the circ is really needed for is moving the water thru the boiler, which has a much higher internal resistance than the old gravity boilers.

I've had very good results using smaller circs on gravity conversions. This technique mimics the gentle gravity flow at maximum design water temp (180 degrees F). It also produces a greater delta-T between supply and return, showing that more heat is added to the water in the boiler and leaves the water in the radiators than when a larger pump is used.

Go here for more:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=125

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Art Pittaway

Hi Noel,

Your right.! The wholesaler will order for stock a group of residential boilers up to 140,000 btu input (i.e.) and all will come with the pump brand he chooses. The small circulators, Red, Blue or Green, are great little pumps, used them, love them. Of that group of boilers, probably 95% will be installed and work acceptably. After 11 years with an ITT Rep, the point I needed to make was since the original system was unknown, it is always in the contractors interest to look at the system and make sure he isn't in that 5%. Saw to many systems that didn't work right after the new boiler was installed in a house with 3" mains.

Art

Art Pittaway

Thanks for the link,

excellent article and your right about oversizing. Bottom line is, the contractor has to know what system he is working on and get all the components to work together. Call backs are embarrasing and expensive, and not the kind of referal that is needed. Thanks.!

Art

Cliff Brady

Could you revisit your article

I have read your article a few times and I am still not sure what to take away from it. The table still still indicates rather high flow rates. Perhaps you could emphasize some of the solid ideas you just posted as well as how two-pipe vs. one-pipe systems are affected by flow rate.

Respectfully,

C

Will_3

Circulator Sizing

I wondered the same after reading the article.

If you read this one, you get a smaller flow.
http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=22

"Size your circulator based on your heat loss calculation, not on the existing radiation. Take your gross BTUH load and divide by 10,000 to get the GPM for the pump. To figure pump head, measure the longest piping run, from the boiler to the furthest radiator and back. Allow six feet of pump head for each 100 feet of piping in that longest run. That's a rule of thumb, but it works well."

If one solves for (BTUh = GPM*490*DeltaT), where BTUh is the heat loss calc, and DeltaT is more like 35 for radiators, the GPM gets smaller still.

Siegenthaler on selecting a Primary Loop Circulator (3/03)

Will_3

Circulator Sizing

As Boilerpro noted earlier, TRVs and constant circulation would probably reduce the pump size as well.

See these threads for more on circulator sizing with gravity conversions:

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=34881

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=21237