Burnham Radiators

Mike T., Swampeast MO

http://www.tuscanfoundry.co.uk/subcategories.asp?cat=61

Good selection but they're in the U.K. I don't believe the Burnham makes the rads--imported from France? someone said.

Availability/price of old rads depends greatly on where you're from and the condition/style you want.

Look around old neighborhoods for homes/buildings being demolished. Around here such are nearly if not completely "free" as long as you provide the muscle.

Check demolition companies--particularly little ones. If your town is like mine you have at least one individual who essentially dismantles buildings piece-by-piece but generally used the "sledge hammer" method for radiators.

As mentioned, check salvage yards but beware that they are considered prime scrap and nobody is in the least careful when removing/loading/unloading them.

Many/most iron radiators can't be re-sized by any practical means. Finding used ones that are "just right" can certainly be a problem. Thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) can compensate for a surprising degree of mis-sizing. This is NOT their intention, but in a pinch...

Black iron would probably be the best, but labor costs will be quite high. I'm not sure if copper tube would be suitable--I know it SHOULDN'T be used with steam--as it would be awfully easy to damage it when installing/removing the rads. PEX shouldn't have this problem, but it can't be used for steam either.

If you can't find a suitable supply of old iron rads and the cost of new ones turns into a budget buster you can likely combine with steel panel rads at much less cost. Sorry to dwell on this, but give UTMOST consideration to TRVs.

Unless your general contractor is quite open minded he might not want to have anything to do with such a system and will do everything in his power to dissuade you. You might want to check yourself to find a heating contractor--depending on your area this might be quite difficult particularly considering the type of system you want to install.

As a fellow old-house lover I COMPLETELY understand where you're coming from. If you are also one who has dealt with (or worked yourself on) old home, you already have two of the most required skills; patience and perseverance.

spt87

Radiators for new house


An old house lover (me) is considering taking the plunge into new construction. I'm trying to keep some old house feel to it and am considering outfitting it with radiators instead of fin-tube. I see Burnham is still making traditional versions of these. Anyone have a ball park price per section? List price would be fine. I need to discuss with a builder tomorrow and hope to have a rough idea. I think the Burnham slenderized is my top choice but haven't ruled out the classic. Also, is anyone else still making traditional US style radiators or does Burnham have the market to itself?

Now I would really like to outfit this house with steam but suspect hot water is the only viable choice for new construction just because that is what all the installers know. Any idea which is less costly (parts only, I know the labor for steam would be higher) - complete copper hot water or black steel steam piping?

- Scott

Dave Ewald

Used Radiators

Watch out, non-pro response! Since the pros didn't answer yet: Dan has mentioned suppliers of old radiators on his post at http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=120
My local plumbing supply place carries some radiators. I bought a used radiator at a scrap iron dealer for $5 a section, but it was stolen from my back yard before I got around to installing it. (It's probably safer and better not to get them at a scrap dealer, since a radiator dealer may inspect them and get rid of the lead paint.)

Earthfire

steam heat

Chances are your builder will tell you that it can't be done. There are contractors out there who know how to service existing and even install new steam systems. You may have to find your own heating contractor and introduce himor her to your builder.Usally if it's not electric baseboard or a baseboard on every wall with one loop of 3/4" inch copper around the house the builder doesn't want to hear it.You may have to tell the builder what some of my heating and a/c customers tell theirs" if you want to build the house you will work with this heating and plumbing contractor on this job or we will hire a different nail banger." After a shakey start have developed good working relationships with many of those builders, to the point that they are referring their clients to use to discuss options and we end up doing more work together.Check Find a Professional & if your in northeast Pa. feel free to contact us.

Scott Willis

Burnham

I don't have any answers for you but I would like to echo one of your questions - does anyone else make classic radiators besides Burnham. They have a very limited line of classic radiators (in terms of hights and finishes) when compared to the selections available from UK. Maybe not quite a purist but I'm pursuing installing radiators with PEX tubing - no need for the expense of cooper.

Mad Dog

The Burnham Classic's run about 100.00 per section

got 2 in my house. Scrap yard raDS are hit or miss....A1 in mass have great rads and selections...and they charge! (they start at 300.00 per section). Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Paul_11

Why steam over hot water?

Earthfire,
I'm curious why you would reccomend steam heat over hot water heat.

IMHO hot water heating, properly installed, would provide a more comfortable and less expensive to run system. I say more comfortable system because I would define comfort as the abiltiy to replace the BTUs of heat loss at the same rate as they are actually lost. We must control the air temperature in the house to do this and with hot water heating, constant circulation, and a four way mixing valve(or injection), we can do this quite well and I would say better than with steam. With hot water heating it is done by virture of being able to control the temperature of the circulating water more closely than you can in a steam system. This would result in a less expensive system to run as well.

Since I'm in NYC we do a lot of work on steam systems, and we replace a lot of steam boilers. As many building here are very large it often makes more sense to leave the steam system installed and just replace the boiler, so I am not a just rip it out kind of guy. Listen, I love steam and would love to install a new system, but I can't find the advantage of installing a new steam system in a new home. Actually, I would reccomend radiant heat in any new building.
I'd love to hear your thinking.
Paul Shay


To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Earthfire

customers prefference

Paul, Radiant rules and with Groundsource heatpump its the emperor of the world! That said we also install and service all other forms of heating and cooling . The main consideration is always the customers preference, after a reasoned and realistic discussion of the benefits and shortcomings of the many choices that are available.The second objective is to build a properly working system that delivers comfort and efficiency at the max of its capabilities.I always tell the customer if you do steam, its like having a dog . You have to go down in the basement at least once a week and pet its head( check the waterline) and take it for a walk( blowdown the low-water cutoff), or it will make a mess or die of neglect, just like a dog, if you neglect it.A hot water system is more like a cat, give it food(fuel),& water and change the litterbox(annual PM),for the most part its a self sufficient system.We even have solid fuel customers and usually after a couple of years of stoking the fire box and hauling out ashes, and having to rebuild the fire if they don't get back home in time, they come back to us and have a gas, oil,or groundsource system installed. We don't gloat and tell them "I told you so", but they come back because they realise that we gave them an honest eveluation of their choices and the consequences of each, and they made a choice that was appropriate for them

Steamhead

Steam has its advantages

1. If you build a one-pipe system, there is less piping to install. This is especially important when retrofitting an existing house.

2. When a steam system shuts down, almost all of the piping drains completely dry. Only the wet returns in the basement, and of course the boiler itself, will still contain water. So if the power goes out, there is much much less danger of the system freezing up.

3. With modern controls such as Pressuretrols, Vaporstats, TRVs and outdoor reset, a steam system can be controlled as accurately as a hot-water system.

4. There is much less water to be heated in a steam system. If properly designed, steam will heat the house up faster than hot-water.

5. If you install a gravity-return steam system, no pump is required. This type of steam system will therefore use less electricity.

6. If you build an Orifice Vapor steam system, the only moving parts are the Vaporstat, the Low-Water Cutoff and a couple air vents in the basement. I believe this system has the fewest moving parts of any system.

7. With steam, the heat emitters in the rooms can be smaller than with hot-water.

I've designed and helped build a one-pipe system from scratch, and it works perfectly. I want to build Orifice Vapor next. Who says steam is obsolete?

If you're in the Baltimore area, e-mail me.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

JOE_24

radiators

a company called GOVERNALE also sells new rads.
www.governaleindusries.com
718-272-2300 no idea on price

JOE_24

radiators

a company called GOVERNALE also sells new rads.
www.governaleindusries.com
718-272-2300 no idea on price
also you can check out www.steamradiators.com for european
style radiators,fancier designs

Mad Dog

Yes, but Governale was bought out by Burnham

last year.It is the same product - same price. Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Mad Dog

This is the Burnham Classic/Governale Victoria

from my house. Gorgeous ehhhh?????? Mad dog

Paul_11

Great responses guys

Good well thought out answers & thus food for thought.
paul shay

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Mad Dog

You are a true Deadman, steamhead..and your facts are ...

irrefutable. Steamhead and Noel put me on the right track with my house - these guys know their $&^*&*(*)&*&)!!! Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Mad Dog

Great metaphors dude........I'll remember 'em

forever!!!!!!!!!!Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Athana

How did it go..?

You were considering the Governale Classic Victioria Cast Iron Radiators for your house..long ago.

I need one of these at least 9 Section(Steam) but the price is just rediculous.

The least I have found one for is $1310 !!!

Any idea where I can buy one for a better price.I must say if I found one for $900 Id do it, as a nice tested painted similar old one delivered(though taller)is $600.