Cast Iron waste line

Mark_22

Folks,
Here's my abridged story. I first heard a loud pop or bang from what seemed to be the wall where the pipe is located. The ambient temp was about 40-50f at the time and no leaks existed prior to this. Next thing I know (a few days later) there is leakage from the 2nd floor waste line whenever the drain is used.

Ever hear/see a residential 4" cast iron waste line fracture on its own? Any thoughts? Im also curious if there is a way to diagnose something like this without breaking the wall open? Like a borescope or inspection camera, etc.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

In my renovation of old homes I've found a surprising number of vertical cast iron soil pipes with splits along their length--some VERY long. I believe settling causes this--and not MINOR settling mind you... I always find a significant structural problems nearby. Water and termite damage are the most common and the latter frequently follows the former...

JimGPE_3

Yep - they do make cameras

You can send a video camera down the drain line and see the damage real-time. Probably not cheap, but it can be done. Ask around the local plumbing shops, but you'll probably have to go to either a roto-rooter type contractor or a commercial contractor. The small residential guys probably don't need/have one.

Mad Dog

See it alot as mike explained

by the time you send a pipe cam in...you could have the wall opened and the CI replaced. Don't waste your $$$$ Mad Dog

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Mark_22

Ah ha

Excellent info, thank you. Yes, its possible there is some settling in that area. But the 'splits' you mentioned, have you ever gotten feedback that it can cause a pop noise, etc?

Mark_22

Thanks

for your response. It's seems more and more that a fracture of the pipe is what happened. If inspection by camera is expensive like you say, it may be smarter to just open the wall? Thanks again.

Mark_22

Ya it seems

inspecting it would be a waste. Just open 'er up I guess? But as I asked Mike - do cast iron pipes that split typically emit a pop noise? I understand it is quite a release of force but is the noise typical? I never heard of it.

gehring

cast iron drain


I have renovated quite a few old houses and have almost always found split/cracked vertical cast iron drain lines. That is why I routinely remove ALL of the cast iron and replace it with ABS. The only reason to go back to cast (in my opinion) is for sound proofing and there are always other ways to sound insulate an ABS pipe chase.

[Deleted User]

cast iron splits often

and it does so suddenly..upon inspection you will probably find that the split is on the thinner part of the cast..therein lies your answer..it will also most likely be service weight cast iron..it has stress imparted into the metal as a byproduct of manufacturing..internal stresses are just there...usually we see the stress win out and relieve itself at about 60-80 years of ago..and we see it often..so often that i went looking for the answer..i found it from a very respected older plumber who was born in the twenties and at 80 years of age is still working, albeit slower..here was his answer..stress relief..cracks the thin side..why does it have a thin side? cause it was cast horizontally...the really good cast iron was cast vertically..hense uniform wall thickness..the foundrys that cast vertically were foundrys making cannons for the military..makes sense doesn't it..today cast iron is ''spun'' for uniform thickness.--hope this helps..

scott remick

I have heard that pipe that was cast during the war (called victory pipe) was always installed on the horizontal thick side down. It was cast this way to help with the construction of tanks ect. If you take a look at a piece from 20 years earlier you find that it is mostly unifom thickness

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I've never been there (to my knowledge) when it happened. The worst ones I've seen significantly deformed outwards along the split. Other times it's "just" a crack with little deformation. I have no idea if the crack starts small, grows in length and then deforms or if forces build to the point that something "pops" in a rather big way.

Kind of like looking at the horizontal strata virtually vertical in the Rocky Mountains--particularly when you can see what looks like the "other side" somewhere else. Geologists say it's a very slow, gradual upheaval but it sure looks like something happened in a BIG way at some point...

[Deleted User]

oh, victory weight,,,

i remember my first time tring to snap a victory weight stack to put in a cleanout...stuff just crumbled under the chain..had to cut the stack with a grinder..most of the ''v'' weight around cleveland already been replaced from falling apart..if i remember right it had a v on the side of the hub instead of ''std''.

Mark_22

More excellent

feedback, thanks. I should add that this house was built circa 1925. You say between 60-80 years is when the stress releases which puts these pipes right in that age bracket! I understand around that time (1925) service weight cast iron pipe was not being produced yet? Anyway, the vertical vs horizontal casting process is both interesting and makes sense.

Mark_22

interesting

I also noted that embossed on a section in the basement (that I can easily look at) it read something like 9 lbs per foot. does this determine what weight the pipe is?

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Look CAREFULLY for structural problems that may be ongoing. Slow plumbing leaks can be absolutely insidious. If there are any large openings in bearing walls nearby suspect inadequate headers. Structural elements were and still are frequently butchered by inconsiderate plumbers. Problems around stairwells are nearly pandemic in homes of that age. While they old-timers had great lumber to work with their framing was often REALLY strange in balloon-frames homes.

Stabilization (stopping the process) is often preferable to actually putting things back in their original positions. It took MUCH time for this to occur and it can be EXTREMELY difficult to take everything back into position concurrently within a reasonable length of time.

If any partions were put in the attic well after the home was built, the roof will very often "lock in" sags unless you remove the partions in the attic.

Mark_22

Right again!

Yes, the pipe is almost right next to a stairwell. Actually, three stairwells are located on top of one another in that area of the house.....from basement to first floor, first floor to second floor, second floor to attic! Structrual problems are possible but i doubt it. I would suspect 'natural' settling mare than anything.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

You'll probably have things open

so look carefully. My home has the same main stair arrangement--three stacked on top of one another.

8' wide hall with 2x10 joists running perpendicular to the length of the stairwells. Bearing wall on each side of these 8' joists. Stair trimmer (believe that's the right term) about 12' long spiked into SINGLE joists at each end. Trimmer slipped down about an inch on the spikes and single joists at both ends have 1½" or so sag. Stabilized with good joist hangers for the trimmer and 6"x½" flat steel bolted to the single joists on top of the wall plates on either side. Much of sag still there, but it ain't going anywhere anymore.