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Where can I buy Wirsbo tubing online
Steve_21
Member Posts: 3
I need 1600 foot for a 4-400 foot run system.
0
Comments
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I don't know if you can buy it online. Wirsbo is a good company that believes in and stands behind their tubing. Buy it from an authorized supply house/contracter and you will have someone to go to for help. It sounds to me like you need someone to help design this.
What size tube do you need? If you are looking for 1/2", then 400' is way too long, for each loop. What spacing are you putting this on? If you wan this to work like it should get some help. I'm sure that you have local wirsbo approved contractors, in your area. Get ahold of Wirsbo to see who sells it in your area.
Steve0 -
get help
with your design and layout! There is other tube and controls on the market that are as good if not better and cost a lot less! check out www.alliedradiant.com
Ted0 -
Tubing
http://www.dultmeier.com/search.asp?advanced=yes&manu=WIRSBO
http://www.accentshopping.com/store/other/vwmfr.asp?MfrID=10
http://www.partsguy.com/cgi-bin/PartsGuy/scan/fi=products/st=db/sf=prod_group/se=Wirsbo Radiant Heat/sf=category/se=PEX Tubing/ml=25/tf=description.html?id=NIgqjRMe
http://buyonlineshopping.com/text112b.html
Just an assortment from my bookmarks. There must be thousand more...0 -
Hopefully..............
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Hopefully..............
you can't.
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AMEN!!!!!! (nm)
c0 -
Amen, Amen...
but there ain't nothing to keep less than scrupulous wholesalers from selling to some schmoe with a web site. Once the product leaves their facility, it's out of their hands.
However, if we find someplace that lists it for sale, and we HCT members apply some political pressure, I'll bet their supply dries up:-)
ME0 -
Wirsbo
You can purchase Wirsbo and most any other hydronics materials, including design by simply clicking on "Find a Contractor" at the top of this screen. You're as close as it gets..... Dan
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Check it out.....
So, as a Wirsbo distributor, I visited one of the web-sites that "CSnow" had listed,just to see the what I was up against. One company,who primarily does carwashes,had a price on 12 tubing. I thought to myself, "Self, they are only advertising aquapex, non-barrier tube." Do they list bronze or non-ferrous components to compliment that? Not really. (Taco 007 CI for sale but not in bronze.)
Less than scrupulous to sell, even more reprehensible to only equip them half way or not inform them of the long term consequences.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
PR0 -
Over reaction?
Unscrupulous? Reprehensible?
Why so much fuss about locking down the supply lines?
IMHO, folks should have the right to get enough education (or consultation) to install a system properly, or even to do it wrong and get themselves deep into trouble. Is business really so bad that you view the non-professional as an economic threat? Around here, heating contractors are booked solid months out. Even among these, many have no experience or interest in installing radiant. In many regions, there are no contractors who do radiant heating.0 -
Missed the point
I don't think it so much a matter of locking down the supply lines as you put it, as much as it is a defensive reaction to a real economic impact. Most of us have invested a considerable amount of money in training, tools, equipment, and advertising to locally promote what we consider professional products (Wirsbo) Now if every Tom, ****, and Harry can buy that premium brand product just anywhere, it will do two things: 1. Destroy the reputation of the product because of the notoriety that failed installations will inevitably bring, and; 2. It will remove any incentive I/we have for promoting the expansion of the radiant industry. If Joe Bagodonuts can buy the product and then screw up the installation, how long do you think it will be before NO ONE will want to hear a presentation about it's "high quality" no matter how good the installing contractor is? I don't think it (Wirsbo) should be sold to anyone that has not been to the HCT training, at a very minimum.
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Counterpoints
Good points Don.
I would offer up some counterpoints:
First off, the original poster did not indicate that his install was without guidance. A professional may well have designed the system for him. He asked a simple question, and folks were very quick to pass judgement.
Individuals who are enthusiastic enough about radiant to go through the considerable effort it takes to learn and apply proper install techniques as an avocation must be (by definition) radiant 'evangelists'. They are likely to be opinion leaders on the subject in their 'economic communities'. Those who promote the virtues of radiant without profit motive are inherently more trusted than those who are 'selling something'. Enthusiasm is contagious, and a rising radiant tide raises all boats.
I'll just offer myself up as an example.
While I have now done a fair amount of hydronic work (non-professionally) for myself and a variety of folks, I have also 'sold' dozens of others on the virtues of hydronics in general, and radiant in particular. This amounts to a massive positive economic impact for the contractors involved on those jobs, and the industry in general. I sell 30 friends, they sell 30 friends, and so on... Sure, you can cut off my personal supply line, but it's a losing game.
Another thing to consider is that just because someone is a "professional", this does not automatically guarantee quality workmanship. How many times have contractors here been out to look at a job that was badly screwed up by the 'last guy'. Some of the installs I see out there are terrible. Understand, this is not a swipe at heating contractors, this is true of any profession. Someone doing their own work is predisposed towards doing the highest quality work possible. They have the biggest stake in the matter.
IMHO, the competition for contractors who install Wirsbo (or anything hydronic) is not the hydronic hobbyist, it is the air heat industry which continues to dominate the market.0 -
My apologies
I am passioniate about what I do, and I fights for the contractors that I service. I was overzealous, I am sorry.
Was it responsible of the on-line company to ONLY sell CI pumps? I don't think so.
IF, you as a sales entity, could have a manufacturer build a pump to specification. CI, wet-rotor, Permanent Split Capacitor, impedence protected. But I only want it to last 366 days. 1 day longer that my warranty will allow. I really don't know if they would sell or not. Probably. Would you buy it? I don't think I would, especially if I am informed about what it was designed to do.
In effect, isn't that the same level of responsibity that the on-line company is assuming. Sometimes we as wholesalers call it a "head-light warranty". When you leave the parking lot, the warranty is out.
I am familiar with that particular company and what they do. They are not gunning for my business, but that does not make it right. And yes, it is a bold statement for me to say HOW they are selling is wrong. But, that is how I feel.
Regards,
PR
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I am not against someone being able to buy anything they want, BUT the real question is who are the real victoms?
They are not the person who cobbles something together, that may 1/2 way run for a couple years, before the inevitable major problems, but its the person they sell the house to. It appraised for just as much as the house that a good contracter, designed and installed, but it quite often is really only 1/2 a system.
The other 1/2 of it left in the pockets of the owner builder that just sold you the house.
The truth is the majority of the owner builder houses are sold to the unsuspecting victom, and I'm getting real tired of having to work on the junky stuff they have install, and then wrong, or minus all the parts needed.
As it currently stands, when the temp. outside drops we cannot take care of all the no heat calls. Which ones do you think I give priority to? The ones installed right? Or the cobbled together mess, that you need to either put a bandade on or tear out and redo?
Most of the time once you touch it you are going to be blamed for everything that goes wrong from that time on. Even if they don't want you to really fix it.
There are some system around here that I have refused to work on again. And these people are the real victoms.
Not selling anything to anyone is one way to slow down this type of rip-off. Won't solve the problem but helps.
There are reasons why not just anyone can decide to make their own roof strusses, and say its just as good as any engineered system out there. You usually couldn't sell the house. Why can you do whatever you want on the mechanical end of things? Who backs up your work, if it fails? Are you lisc'd and insured to cover what you created? Do you really know enough about it to know it will not fail drastically on the unsuspecting next owner?
Steve0 -
Home owner installs
When a system is sold over the internet with out complete instructions or the correct components, who heres about ?
Maybe the thirty that Mr Snow is talking about. MAybe they tell thirty people that radiant dosn't work well and they know a guy who lost thousands having to repair his home.
Worrying about unscuplous selling is not a worry for compitition but more a worry for a black eye to the industry as a whole. There are lemon laws to protect sellers of cars that are not in proper condition, is it O.K. to sell non-barrier tubing with cast iron pumps and connection to boilers simply because we don't want to appear threatened ?
Scott
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Some Wirsbo products
mostly surplus, can be found on Ebay. Search for Pex and you will find everything you need, including companies that will do the engineering if you buy their product.
What are you all afraid of? I have seen do it yourselfers build homes that are better than any builder could provide.
Small radiant heat jobs, like bathrooms and kitchens are no brainers.
You don't have enough floor space to run more than 250 feet of tubing. Install a good mixing valve and whats the big deal. If the floor is to hot turn the valve temperature down.
My mother inlaw just came back from Germany the bathroom floor in the hotel was radiant, there was a control that allowed the guest to regulate the temperature.
She told me that she used the floor to keep a pizza warm! Now that's efficiency.0 -
Good point Scott.
And to prove there is a long list of valid complaints, about such systems, maybe all you unhappy home owners who got took by the previous owned bad install, should start a link.
I bet it would be the longest link ever on this site, even after subtracting the invalid complaints and the done-it-to-myself ones.
Steve0 -
The Nature of Marketing
As I see it, that is the nature of a free market society, where the secondary(or Lower) peddlers feed of the marketing programs of the Manufacturers. There is Wirsbo, and then there's all the rest. Wirsbo, as I see it, has done a fantastic job of pull-through Marketing. "I just gotta have WIRSBO". But, have any of you contractors had any difficulty filling your orders for Wirsbo at the Supply House? I just heard today there is a 9 week lead time for delivery of at least one Wholesaler's order here in the northeast. Now, if Mr. DIY HO has received the marketing message intended, he might feel nothing else will do, and go to extreme lengths to buy Wirsbo. It seems to me the other edge of the sword just drew blood. "WHERE CAN I GET WIRSBO"? Education? A definite YES! But, who's to say this person who is looking for 1600' of WIRSBO isn't so distraught that he forgot to mention he'd need at least 5/8" for that design?(He might even buy a Copper Tube boiler to get it)
Desperation, in the face of Marketing!?????
AAAAAAAggghhhh
Jed
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Amazing!
That pizza warmer had to do wonders for the wax ring under the toilet.
I can buy band-aids and gauze at Rite-Aid, and with a little effort find plenty of drugs available in some back alley. Does that make me qualified to practice medicine?
After 35 years at this business, I am convinced that those who exclaim "I do it myself!"; are really saying " I can't afford to have it done professionally!"
That Mexican farmer that irrigated his green onion fields with sewer water, and sold them to Chi Chi's........what the hey? Water is water, right? Pex is Pex, right? Open system, legionella, what the hey?
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Yes, but
Steve,
I appreciate your perspective.
I would just point out that while one holds a deed to their property, there are any number of things that can be done by HOs and 'pros' alike that will cause headaches for the next owner. Like with everything, it is up to the buyer to make their own purchase decisions. The world is not padded for your protection! I went with a potential buyer to inspect a home as a favor a few weeks back. The heating system was not installed well by any measure, but the home inspector just 'checked the little box' on his form, and moved on to complain about some minor stuff. Heating systems get very little attention from inspectors or home buyers in my experience. That system was installed by a 'pro', as most systems (good and bad) are. My point is that just because something is one's primary vocation, this does not guarantee they are actually any good at it, or care enough to do good work. Not in any field I have been exposed to, anyways...
This board is heavily populated with geniune craftsmen which skews things away from reality somewhat. Anyone who spends their free time talking shop is obviously pretty serious about their vocation!0 -
Specialized society
Don,
Cost factors are not the whole story.
While we live in an increasingly specialized society, many folks do practice avocations that interest them, and many are quite good at these. I know folks who restore cars who are more meticulous than any mechanic could ever afford to be. My neighbor is now constructing a porch so carefully that it will outlast anyone alive today. I know folks who build beautiful furniture, play incredible music, cook unbelievable food, have putting green lawns, write amazing computer programs, and run our town government.
While any of these folks are good enough to make a living from their avocation, they all choose to do something else as their primary vocation for whatever reason. These "renaissance" men and women are among to most interesting folks one could ever know.0 -
Nicely put, Corey.
Inside the trade you have hacks and pros.
Outside the trade you have DIYers and "renaissance men".
Mark0 -
Hi Corey!
First let me say that as a "professional" I like to think that I have a wee bit of an edge on any DIYer or "renaissance" person.
I do not believe, however, that I am the only person qualified to cable-tie Pex tubing to wire mesh!
I have a customer that is gonna' be on his knees this weekend installing tubing in his basement floor. He bought the tubing from me and I laid things out. Now he gets to have a hands-on role in the building of his new home. Anybody got a problem with that?
There is a line that should not be crossed.
As you stated, there are plenty of "pros" out there that are clueless but a higher percentage of homeowners will be clueless as well.
IMHO, it should be illegal for anyone who has not attended formal training on combustion and venting to purchase ANY combustion appliance.
That's where I draw the line.
This is America folks! You are free to do what you want, although the authorities look down upon ameteur surgeons!
I am curious as to when a person feels they have researched enough.
Is it when they find the correct answer?
Or is it when they find the correct price?
They could be very different.
Mark H
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Actually
The world IS padded for our protection, at least minimum standards. Your friends home inspector may not have cared about the heating system but by checking off the box he said " yes there is a heating system ". That is a standard. Every home owner has the right to work on his home, BUT he can not install something that is unsafe or may harm a new owner. That boiler should have passed a inspection that said it met a minimum standard. Maybe not by the home inspector but by some inspector. I belive you have a right to purchase a home that will not harm you medically or finacially.
Most profesionals are not threated by a HO doing his own work. Most professionals do not feel they have a exclusive right to installation. I am tired of that old horse being dragged out of the barn again. My question is why should it be allright to sell products over the internet which will damage a home. Non-barrier tubing installed with a cast iron pump or installed to a cast iron boiler will rot out the boiler. Is that O.K. with everybody ? Ar'nt boilers built to a minumum standard ? Should'nt the system have a minimum standard.
Scott
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Wirsbo DIY
I recently connected the heat source to a radiant job in my area. The local Plumbing/HVAC supplier sold the Wirsbo HePex, as well as all the plumbing pex, and the Wirsbo rep helped talk the homeowner through the install. 9000 feet of tube! I got the call when the owner realized the manifolds, wiring, and boiler install were a bit beyond his comfort level, even with the reps drawings.
The homeowner did a very nice install for a fellow in his 70's! Bothered me that neither the Wirsbo dealer or rep performed a heat loss. Not exactly in line with Wirsbo's teachings.
Anyways, I'm always glad to have compentent homeowner help with any install, especially 9000 feet of overhead tube work.
Not all of the "over the counter to the public" tube sales turn out as well as this job. In my area anyway
I still have a couple 1000 and 1200 foot single loop jobs to sort out after the litigation ends!
The Wirsbo dealer did send the lead my way for the final portion of the job.
hot rod
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Huge edge
Mark,
Do not be so modest.
You have a huge edge on just about everyone.
Backing off my philosophy a notch, I totally agree with you on drawing an sharp line of distinction at combustion setup and venting of appliances. Takes real formal training and special equipment to get that part right, and the stakes are very high indeed. I do not want anyone lurking to get the wrong idea here. The original poster was talking about buying tubing, not setting up a burner. Know your limitations and understand the consequences...
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HR
HR,
Anyone close enough to hire you to build them a near-boiler work of art would be a fool to consider doing any of that themselves.0 -
Scott
I understand your point, and it is terrible when folks get stuck having bought a structure with serious defects.
In reality, there is not any explicit "right to purchase a home that will not harm you medically or finacially".
Years back, I sold homes for a living, and I have seen it all... Caveat emptor! RE sales agents must represent the interests of the seller BY LAW. That means they could actually be held liable for finding any defects that might jeapordize a sale. While you must disclose what you know, you cannot look too closely! Every salesperson knows which inspectors are 'dealbusters' and which ones 'fly blind'. Strange business, this...
Obviously things vary from town to town, but town inspectors in this end of MA only look at very specific things upon boiler install. They have no interest in oxygen barriers, circs, or anything on the heat transfer end of things.
As heating systems become more complex, there might be a niche business for specialized pre-purchase inspections. Despite my limited amateur knowledge, I have done several of these for no pay. Folks do not know who to call for such a thing.0 -
As a DIY homeowner type, I must give some input here. I *prefer* to do this sort of work myself, but I am not the typical DIYer as I have a degree in Mechanical engineering, and study things very carefully before I do anything. I recently completed an in slab hydronic system for my workshop using oxy barrier tubing bought over the internet, I put the insulation, vapor barrier, wire mesh, and pex tubing in myself. I made maps of the routing, tied and cut the tails of the zipties, analyzed the routing of the pipes to determine heat input at a particular location, etc. I used 2000 ft of 1/2in tubing in 8 exactly 250 foot loops. If I *HADN'T* been able to buy BPEX online, I probably wouldn't have been able to afford the job. Now I know that I am not Joe Average in this regard, but the guy out there selling on the internet does have a service that is usefull to those of us who chose to go it alone. I am not a fan of any regulation other than safety, and like always, caveat Emptor! There are plenty of folks out there that don't feel comfortable enough to do this sort of work, and heating contractors are always booked solid for months. There are craftsmen, and there are hacks. I've had far too many hacks work on my homes. I just won't tolerate it anymore. Not saying that those people hang out here, just that they are out there in force.0 -
I tried Find a Professional
with my zipcode. No professionals within 100 miles and you can't try 200 miles. When I wanted to use alumipex or equiv for panel rads, I checked with the local supply houses. #1 What's that? Went to the next one, #2. well, no one here uses that but let me check. #3. I could special order for you. OK I said, and I want threaded fittings, no sweat fittings. Weil/Mclain tubing arrived with sweat fittings. "Well that's all we could get".
So why shouldn't we be able to buy what we need somewhere? I will be in Baltimore in Dec visiting the kids. Perhaps I will be able to get the fittings I need there.
And who qualifies the "professional" in Find A Professional anyway. I have been an avid Wall fan for a couple of years and designed our system with Dan's books and Waller's help so I feel I know a bunch of youse guys. But not all "professionals" are listed and are all those listed "professionals"?
Odds say they are the true professionals since they are on this site but surely you don't feel threatened by internet sales. Home Despot has been selling plumbing and heating supplies since day one but I have not heard of a "professional" guy lacking work.
I don't think you have anything to fear and I would gladly pay your prices to get the things I need if, of course, there was one of you within 100 miles that I could drive to.
Designing my heating system has been fun and I have learned lot's of new stuff. It is not nearly finished and the experience has taught me that it can be even better. Between restoring the building and opening my shop, the heating system kind of has been left behind until I got a round toit. But ya know, my plumber/heating guy still made several thousand dollars with me and we still need a place to buy stuff.0 -
Wirsbo tubing
Fairlane, I agree with you
I am also an Electromechanical Engineer, and I work for a medical company. I have researched the bacterial factor and the requirements for a safe system and fully understand the requirements. As a responsible professional I would not knowingly design anything which would harm another human being much less my family. Trust me, I know what I am doing. I am intelligent enough to know when I don't know what I am doing and how to find/figure out how to do it right. For those of you who did not understand that last comment, your not an engineer.
Engineers with experience have trained their minds over the years to seek out inconsistencies in their work kind of in the back ground/ in the back of their mind. To "leave no stone unturned" if you will. Look for the possible missed opportunity for improving your design. I assure all of you that I have gathered about 1 to 2 gigs of text and pictorial data and have read it all. What it took most of you a year or two to learn I have found read and retained over the course of a few months. I have taken all of the data and combined it with what I know to be true to carefully mesh together a heating system, I designed the controller, as well as the radiant heating/ radiant cooling system. I have and IQ of 185, I am a god compared to the likes of you. Ok, enough, LOL. Really I have an IQ of 185. OK, I'm not a god. But this is not rocket science either as most of you are portraying it as being. Actually, rocket science is not rocket science as I have found out over the years.
I have received many negative messages from this board on how I could never understand the dangers of designing an open system, among other nasty comments. How I could never understand how to make sure I have chosen the proper materials so that my system does not rot. I have never had the displeasure of conversing with such a bunch of paranoids as self serving jerks in my whole life. I realize you are scared and feel threatened that the average person will find out how you are charging them 13000.00+ for a system that did not cost you more than 3000.00 in parts. I am certain that it burns your **** that the average homeowner does not have to fall prey to being taken advantage of by the inflated prices you are charging. The fear that you are spreading about making your family sick, designing a system that will rot because you did not use oxygen barrier cross linked tubing. Oooooooh big words. You only have to use oxygen barrier tubing if your water temp is going to be in excess of 140 degrees f. The long and the short of it is for these big bad bacterial hazards to grow in your system they have to be present in the supply water first. If you have not become sick of the water from drinking it, it is safe. Generally if you design a system that the water drops 10 to 15 degrees after being passed through 300 feet of 1/2 tubing you have done your job well. The heat is being transferred to your floor or joist space and will heat your home. Place floor monitoring thermocouples from the special radiant heat thermostats on your floor to make certain they do not exceed 85 degrees F and your home free. I would not want any of these people who are sending negative input to even touch my home, they are only in it for the money! I am not going to leave the design and installation of the main source of thermal energy for my home to the likes of them, their attitudes are all wrong. I have found that in my past use of general contractors one thing is a constant. A good majority of them are general contractors "Their Own boss so to speak" because their attitudes are such that they can't, could or would not be able to keep a job if you had to deal with being someone's subordinate. The fact that you are sending brass e-mails touting your superiority as an installer and how DIY's don't have the brain power to do your highly skilled job, instead of just helping a DIY out with positive comments, speaks volumes towards your personality and in support of my above comments.
I have a PEX tubing contact where I can buy Pex tubing locally, I just wanted to look at Wirsbo tubing also. No sense in limiting you options. Explore all possible avenues, within reason.
For those of you who have sent positive comments and concerns, thank you! Your positive comments and suggestion were greatly appreciated. You know who you are!
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In Germany , I would bet they don't use wax rings, they are to
low tech. In bathrooms with radiant heat I use rubber gasket type rings. They even sell them in Home Depot.0 -
Well...............
Then riddle me this Batman;
If bacteria (Legionella) are present and they need a pH of 5.0 to 8.5; stagnation; biofilms and water temps of 55 F to 133 F, then how will an open system NOT be an amplifier?
If it's an amplifier, does it pose a potential hazzard?
Will I become sick if I'm a healthy individual or if I'm an imunosuppresed individual? Can there be a difference? Or are we all equally susceptable?
Which distal sites pose potential hazzards? Should I be more concerned with nosocomial or community aquired LD?
Whatever you do to yourself is your business. I get concerned when what you do can harm others. I don't have any concerns about you or anyone else buying materials, but I do have concerns when you or others portray what we do as being so simplistic as it being child's play.
Rocket science? Nope, it's applied science. With a very healthy dose of common sense tossed in for good measure.
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Dr. Hash?
> Fairlane, I agree with you I am also an
> Electromechanical Engineer, and I work for a
> medical company. I have researched the
> bacterial factor and the requirements for a safe
> system and fully understand the requirements. As
> a responsible professional I would not knowingly
> design anything which would harm another human
> being much less my family. Trust me, I know
> what I am doing. I am intelligent enough to
> know when I don't know what I am doing and how to
> find/figure out how to do it right. For those
> of you who did not understand that last comment,
> your not an engineer. Engineers with
> experience have trained their minds over the
> years to seek out inconsistencies in their work
> kind of in the back ground/ in the back of their
> mind. To "leave no stone unturned" if you will.
> Look for the possible missed opportunity for
> improving your design. I assure all of you
> that I have gathered about 1 to 2 gigs of text
> and pictorial data and have read it all. What
> it took most of you a year or two to learn I have
> found read and retained over the course of a few
> months. I have taken all of the data and
> combined it with what I know to be true to
> carefully mesh together a heating system, I
> designed the controller, as well as the radiant
> heating/ radiant cooling system. I have and IQ
> of 185, I am a god compared to the likes of you.
> Ok, enough, LOL. Really I have an IQ of 185.
> OK, I'm not a god. But this is not rocket
> science either as most of you are portraying it
> as being. Actually, rocket science is not rocket
> science as I have found out over the years.
> I have received many negative messages from this
> board on how I could never understand the dangers
> of designing an open system, among other nasty
> comments. How I could never understand how to
> make sure I have chosen the proper materials so
> that my system does not rot. I have never had
> the displeasure of conversing with such a bunch
> of paranoids as self serving jerks in my whole
> life. I realize you are scared and feel
> threatened that the average person will find out
> how you are charging them 13000.00+ for a system
> that did not cost you more than 3000.00 in parts.
> I am certain that it burns your **** that the
> average homeowner does not have to fall prey to
> being taken advantage of by the inflated prices
> you are charging. The fear that you are
> spreading about making your family sick,
> designing a system that will rot because you did
> not use oxygen barrier cross linked tubing.
> Oooooooh big words. You only have to use oxygen
> barrier tubing if your water temp is going to be
> in excess of 140 degrees f. The long and the
> short of it is for these big bad bacterial
> hazards to grow in your system they have to be
> present in the supply water first. If you have
> not become sick of the water from drinking it, it
> is safe. Generally if you design a system that
> the water drops 10 to 15 degrees after being
> passed through 300 feet of 1/2 tubing you have
> done your job well. The heat is being
> transferred to your floor or joist space and will
> heat your home. Place floor monitoring
> thermocouples from the special radiant heat
> thermostats on your floor to make certain they do
> not exceed 85 degrees F and your home free. I
> would not want any of these people who are
> sending negative input to even touch my home,
> they are only in it for the money! I am not
> going to leave the design and installation of the
> main source of thermal energy for my home to the
> likes of them, their attitudes are all wrong. I
> have found that in my past use of general
> contractors one thing is a constant. A good
> majority of them are general contractors "Their
> Own boss so to speak" because their attitudes are
> such that they can't, could or would not be able
> to keep a job if you had to deal with being
> someone's subordinate. The fact that you are
> sending brass e-mails touting your superiority as
> an installer and how DIY's don't have the brain
> power to do your highly skilled job, instead of
> just helping a DIY out with positive comments,
> speaks volumes towards your personality and in
> support of my above comments. I have a
> PEX tubing contact where I can buy Pex tubing
> locally, I just wanted to look at Wirsbo tubing
> also. No sense in limiting you options.
> Explore all possible avenues, within reason.
> For those of you who have sent positive comments
> and concerns, thank you! Your positive comments
> and suggestion were greatly appreciated. You know
> who you are!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Dr. Hash?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
That's a good one!!!!!!!
Mark H
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Engineers....
http://www.heatinghelp.com/newsletter.cfm?Id=15
Rocket science ain't even rocket science?0 -
search
Now, DR Hash, your getting a little noxious for my sensibilities. As a mechanical engineer myself I have found that many engineer's ( NOT ALL) are full of formulas, but only design something that can be assembled ,installed & serviced with ease by accident. I chose many years ago to remove that noose of a tie from my neck and restore the blood flow to my brain. That is why I work with my hands as well as my brain today. If you are as smart as you claim why didn't you just do a search for wirsbo. Several internet sellers come up at the top of the results ,as well as the company. Wirsbo will also send you info on installers and suppliers. As for pricing medical companies charge thousand of dollars for things that cost pennies to make. A doctor's office visit: you transport the problem appliance to the office sit in the waiting rm. about a half hour (if lucky) Dr. sees you for 4 minutes, the bill is $150.00 +-. Person calls me to service your boiler: I bring about $50,000++ in equipment, truck, tools, & supplies plus technicians to your house spend three or four hours servicing and tuning your neglected equipment, and then they complain cause the bill is too high. At the medical rates ,Lets say 5 minutes of work, the bill for three hours should be $5400.00 Plus $1,800 travel time( 1hour).As for IQ scores mine was 181 when I was in school, and I have found that an IQ score does not indicate, the quality or common sense of a person,or even their ability to walk and chew gum at the same time.As a designer and installer of various mechanical ( refrigeration, steam, hydronic, forced air,ground source & electrical)systems, I would really prefer that quality supplies and materials not be available to "Joe I have money in hand". The end result is, in many cases, that the equipment is blamed and gets a black eye, not the faulty shortcut install. JMHO George0 -
Nevermind
Sort of like yelling fire in a crowded theater...
Now that we have 'met' the original poster, I'm considering arguing the other side...0 -
Dear Doc
I e-mailed you a few days ago and recommended that you isolate the potable side from the heating side of your system. This recommendation is not based on any economic benefit to me, nor, in all likelyhood, to anyone else posting here. I sent it to you out of concern for you and your family. I have had the experience of "opening up" a system such as you described and dealing with the problems that an open design creates. The water passing through one of these systems is not anything I would like to bath in. The local pond, complete with cow pasture and farm field run-off would be preferable to me.
You may never experience any problems, health or otherwise, with your system. However, I felt that it was my responsibilty to at least give you a heads up on what liabilities you are making possible. I owe you that much, simply because you are a fellow human being. I in no way intended to belittle your capabilities or to infer that you shouldn't do this yourself. I have worked side by side with many homeowners, helping them install their heating/cooling systems in order that they could save $$$ on a radiant installation. My objective was to provide you with a little more info, upon which to make a decision. That decision, of course is yours.0 -
not the question
it's not a question of you intelligence. But can you buy wirsbo online I would never use prescription drugs for other that what they were designed to do but I can not legally buy zoloff off the internet I need a prescription so go get a prescription from you favorite installer and then proceed to the wholesaler he chooses and pay the price they choose. and install away if it helps you can allways install 2 or three then call your installer/doctor of hydronics in the morning good luck remember advice is worth what you pay for it0
This discussion has been closed.
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