Need some wallie insght

bigugh_4

complaints before. Turned out the main lines piping were not large enough to handle the loads of flow imposed upon them.The 17 ft tower, is moot in a closed system , as the water going up is pulled by the water going down. the system pressure does the lifting work. Post the sizes of your near boiler & manifold piping and flow loads and let us see how that looks

J Matthers_2

Need some wallie insight


I finally started up my Geo Warmbaord radiant system a month ago. Much anticipated for the last 8 months, and it has preformed reasonably well. There have been a few kinks I am working out.

Setup:

40 gallon buffer tank, 7 zones controlled by 7 007 circulator pumps, five local manifolds, two remote (upstairs). Circulators controlled by thermostats in each zone, no zone valves and no reset. System pressure in buffer tank is 15 psi.

On initial start-up, after purging the air from the system I discovered a few problems. One, still air in the remote manifold loops. They are the highest in the system and are supplied by ¾ Kitec 17 feet above the pump. The other problem was lots of ghost flow. Yes, I forgot the flow cheks. Even with these problems I was getting plenty of heat. The other day I made some corrections. I added an air eliminator after the buffer tank and before the pumps ( I had been told the buffer tank would remove air, I had my doubts and knew an air eliminator wouldn’t hurt), added Hy-vents to the returns on the remote manifolds, and put in spring chek valves in my vertical piping after the pumps and yes, all the valves are going in the right direction ( all my piping after the pumps is vertical so I went with the spring cheks). I then purged the system one loop at a time to remove all the air. NOW, no ghost flow, no air, but no flow to the second floor (remotes) and I am getting less heat to the rest of the zones.

My suspicions are this:

In the second floor zones with the 17ft column and the spring valve the pump can’t circulate the water. During purge there was plenty of flow but this was at 70 PSI.

In the other zones the spring chek is causing to much of a restriction in the flow. In some of the zones I am hearing a little clicking that may be the chek valve opening and closing.

This is all new tight SIP construction with all heat load calcs properly done.

Tim Doran

Atlantic Golf?

Is that the Atlantic golf club in Bridgehampton? I shot a ton of ducks and geese on that place when it was still Dan Baldwins potato farm. Turned out to be one awsome course. I got to play it once with the local fire department before I moved away.

Tim D.

J Matthers

Yes

Yes, it is Atlantic Golf Club. I am the GM there. A couple of years ago I decided to build a house in Sag Harbor. Actually next to my current house. Lots of spare time out here in the winter when you run a golf club. My chef actually was my framing crew. Anyway, two years later it is almost done. The heat uses a 5-ton geo unit coupled with radiant laid in Warmboard. The house itself is a SIP building. Very tight with high R values. It makes the Low temp Geo and radiant perfect heat. I have been watching the Wall and learning everything I can about hydronics for the last three years. This stuff is great. If I was 20 years younger I would start out on a new career path.
I have done everything in the house but the masonry, roof and the siding. Ed Gregory looked over my shoulder on the electric and Joe Holder helped me out with the plumbing. I am just having a few problems with air and flow but I'll get it worked out. Went strait to the Wall of course.
So you spent some time on the East End. Yeah, lots of geese and ducks in Shorts Pond. Now that it's a golf course I have to chase a hunter off every once in a while. I let the boys come and count the fowl every year. The fire department gets out once a year in the spring or the fall. Glad you caught my post. Maybe Dan can schedule a Wetstock in the Hamptons and we can play some Wethead golf.

hr

Make sure

you didn't get a lump of solder lodged in those check valves when you installed them. Easy to do when soldering them on a vertical line.

The pressure drop through those checks should not have had that much of an effect on the flow. If the flow diminished, or stopped, after the check addition, I'd suspect the check or installation.

Would not a check pump been easier to install? They don't hamper the flow. Or make noise

hot rod

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J Matthers_2

check pump

Your talking about a pump with integral check valve?
Yes, much, wish I had put them in the first place. Nothing takes the place of experience.

J Matthers_2

Pressure

The system is "out of the norm" because there is no boiler. The Geothermal heat pump produces the hot water. But, that really doesn’t make a difference. We stray off a little at the buffer tank. The buffer is designed to be the expansion tank as well as the storage tank for the heated water mass. The primary manifold is 1" feeding the seven pumps. After the pumps come the 1' manifolds, the 1/2' radiant loops and returning to the return manifold and then a 1" return manifold. The flow rate and supply temps are as follows:
Z1 1.4 Supply Temp 86
Z2 1.0 Supply Temp 107
Z3 .65 Supply Temp 107
Z4 .68 Supply Temp 111
Z5 .92 Supply Temp 107
Z6 .9 Supply Temp 109
Z7 .98 Supply Temp 111

TL 6.53

The supply manifold is fed from the bottom of the buffer tank, runs through an air separator and on to the pumps. The return enters the tank at the top and has an internal drop so the discharge is below the waterline. As I said, there is no separate expansion tank in the system; the air space at the top of the buffer tank handles this task. The pressure relief valve on the buffer is set at 15 PSI. This pressure is adequate for getting water to the second floor, however, there is no accommodation on the tank for a gauge and I don't have one in the system. I think this is where my problem lies. I can't tell if there is enough pressure in the system to get the water to the second floor. I had full flow to the second floor until I opened up the rest of the zones and the pressure dropped. At that point I had "gurgling" at the second floor manifolds. Caused me to stare at the manifolds for five or ten minutes thinking and then decide to have a beer and call my plumber buddy. We are going to see if we can put a gauge on the buffer tank or in the system and incorporate a way to set the pressure. Think I am on the right track? I'll report back.

Tim Doran

Grew up out there

I grew up right over on Norris Lane in Bridgehampton. I have known the gregory family all of my life. Some of the best electricians around. I have also met Joe Holder but don't know him real well. I grew up with the Westnofski boys and some of the Guyer clan. New Dan Baldwin real well also, so I got to spend a lot of time hunting all of the fields up there. The Black ducks used to come off of Noyac Bay first thing in the morning to feed. They would come over the trees at the north end of what is now the course by the thousands. Are they still around? I realy miss the way things used to be out there. We call it progress but I have my doubts.
If I can be of any assistance with your RFH project give me a call. 952-997-5334

Tim D.