steam rad sucking up water Help!

Unknown

That line is too small, and too small usually means that the radiator fills with water.

The air vent lets air back in pretty slowly, so the draining process would be slow.

Being the last radiator on the line, I bet it never got as much steam as when you fixed everything else. The problem was hidden, maybe, by not enough steam, because of other causes.

1 inch pipe is too small for a one-pipe radiator supply.

Noel

GW

steam rad sucking up water Help!

Hi steam dudes,

I burnt a floor today, lucky me, the wood floor finish objected to the 212* water I dumped all over it.

So now I'm a bit baffled- I replaced a steam boiler, everything by the book. It has a classic perimeter loop, parrellel flow, more than 1" per 20' pitch, with a new main vent properly located. Piping is insulated. Honeywell set on its minimum settings, but the needle did rise to 2-3 lbs or so, it's kinda hard to know what tiny line is what.

The one that sucked up all the water is the one closest to the return drop. it's about 4-6 feet away from the drop. This is a one pipe job.

All the basics are there, including equalizer, hartford loop, so on. What am I missing?

Thanks,

Gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

joe_14

piping



is the runout to the radiator correct size for size of radiator and is the radiator properly pitched.

joe.g.

GW

I don't know

Should I be concerned with that? It was a 1" line, not too small of a rad. I'd say 39" tall, about 8-10 section, two column.
so, 32 to 40 sq ft:

The Book says 1" will do 28 sq ft; is this a big problem? The owner says it always worked fine...

Oh, it seems like a 1" rad valve is only good for 20 ft. But I'm still confused about the vacuum

Gary


To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

[Deleted User]

does the radiator

have a vacumn air vent on it..is it possible that a deep enough vacumn is forming in the radiator and drawing water into it??i'm not sure i have a complete understanding of the senario.

GW

regular vent

I'm confused too, but I almost filled my drawers as I spilled the water all over the floor the Second time! I'd say a good one or two quarts came out each time.

Where's Dan when you need him?? HELP!

gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

[Deleted User]

youve probably checked this, but

does the radiator pitch the right way for draining?

[Deleted User]

what made you disconnect

the radiator in the first place? perhaps we should start at the beginning.

dave_21

where did you install the new steam main vent and what pressure are you operating the boiler?

scrook_2

He said...

"...Honeywell set on its minimum settings, but the needle did rise to 2-3 lbs or so, it's kinda hard to know what tiny line is what...."

Steamhead

Could be

either a plugged wet return or not enough A dimension. Either would cause water to back up into the steam main and get into that radiator.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

David Efflandt

Is air vent working properly?

How is water getting out of the radiator onto the floor?

Does the air vent work? Is it venting air smoothly and quietly and closing when it gets hot. Do you hear any girgling or sloshing sounds?

The vent could be plugged, or venting too rapidly for the supply piping to handle condensate from inrush of steam hitting a cold radiator.

My most distant radiator is probably 27 sq-ft upstairs directly on a 1" riser. When I replaced an old sticky Dole D vent with a Dole 1A set wide open (#10), it vented rapidly, but was puffing and sucking, rad was making sloshing sounds, and vent failed in a week (plugged).

It now has a Hoffman 1A vent set at #3, which vents more smoothly, heats the rad more evenly with rarely any sloshing sounds, and is on its second season without any problems.

This is not a slam of Dole, I have other Dole vents working fine that appear to have never been touched. Just that a simple adjustment may mean the difference between working or not. Balancing a steam system is a fine art.

GW

it was

slightly backwards.. I raised it up a bit, but that wasn't the issue. It's barely pitching correctly now- but the problem seems to be on shutdown ( I think it's on shutdown anyways, i was a litle rattled when I realized I messed up the floor..), it's sucking water none the less.

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

because

I drained some water out of the second floor rads, just about a cup or so out of three of the four upstairs ( the fourth was buried behind some furniture..)

Amazingly, the problem rad wasn't heating at all ( which is on the first floor), so instead of standing there looking at it i decided to take the wrench to it and see what there was to see.

That's when the first flood happened, I'd say about a healthy quart or so, maybe more, it was a lot!

In my state of stupor, after running the system again for about 10 minutes I heard all this gurgling and sloshing going on inside the rads, and like an idiot i did the same thing again.... shut off the rad and cracked the union, and wham, flood #2.

thanks for any clues!

Gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

dry returns

It's a small system, no wet returns at all, just a perimter 2" main parrellel flow. This water sucking rad is about 5-6 feet from the drop to the H-loop. There's plenty of A. I'm still stumped,

Could it be too much pressure?

Could the boiler be just a little too big? I used the 33% factor, although the mains are insulated.

gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

reply

How is water getting out of the radiator onto the floor?

>Because I dumped it all over!

Does the air vent work? Is it venting air smoothly and quietly and closing when it gets hot. Do you hear any girgling or sloshing sounds?

>It's a new adjustable vent, and it works fine. It doesn't really close, nor does the rad get hot, or I should say it did after the system had been on for 45 minutes...And yes, I did hear any girgling or sloshing sounds, plently. I believe it happened at the end of a burner cycle, but I was starting to lose my patience a little.


The vent could be plugged, or venting too rapidly for the supply piping to handle condensate from inrush of steam hitting a cold radiator.

>Perhaps, but all the other rads where smokin hot and this one was stone cold.. I still don't understand why. After I made a mess and prehaps 20 minutes later, it was finally getting hot.

Gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

pic

Here is the boiler.

The vertical drop with the union is the Return drop, and the insulated pipe with the take off (yes, it's shooting up into a 90, not a 45) is the problemo. The rad is about 4-5 feet of so horizontal run to the left, then up to the first floor rad.

Gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

don't mind the fill valve,

this shot was taken a couple of months ago...

Gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

[Deleted User]

you think the condensate

coming back down the vertical 90 degree takeoff is perhaps squashing the steam?

steve_6

i agree with steamhead

What is your "A" dimension????

GW

new main vent

is about 10" or so from the end of the main, it's not visible in the pic, but it is there-

I'm still confused because I see steam systems all the time that don't have any main vents...

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Travis G.

radiator

Did you check the radiators sections with a 6 inch level? If there are sags in the radiator it could be holding water. The gurgling noise is from sagging points in the bottom of the radiator. The middle of the radiator is a normal spot fot this.

Steamhead

You could get away with that

in the Coal Era, since a coal fire burned continuously. Once the air was out, it stayed out- so what if it took an hour to get heat into the last radiator? Obviously this doesn't hold true for oil or gas.

Unfortunately, when many of these systems were changed to oil or gas, they didn't take this difference into account. Or maybe they wanted to be the low-bidder. Regardless, every system needs main vents.

How long is your main, and what pipe size? What vent did you put on it?

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

level

I did check it with a 10" level, or whatever that Ridgid level is- It doesn't seem possible for there to be a sag- I did drain it twice though- so it's definatley sucking water...

gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

GW

about 60 foot

of 2" main pipe, parrellel flow, almost square pattern around the basement. I always use the #77 because I don't know what else to use... please comment.

Gary

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

Steamhead

That used to be called

a "circuit" system. The vent to use on this main is a Gorton #2. It has far more capacity than anything else out there, and will get the air out of that main quickly so it can fill with steam quickly. If you can't find Gortons in your area, call Gorton at (908) 276-1323, ask for Ken Kunz and tell him I sent you. He will sell to you direct if no one in your area handles Gortons.

www.gorton-valves.com

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

DanHolohan

I agrre

with what Noel says. Probably some oil in the water as well, and that can increase carryover.