HELP! Trane Vapor System

Larry Simmons

I replaced a steam boiler that had no markings to tell what size it was. I think I may have undersized the new boiler. I sized it to heat load rather than the radiators. We don't get much call for these things here in the south. It is not making much steam pressure. It only gets up to a quarter pound of pressure. It does not get high enough to cycle the burner but the radiators are heating.

QUESTION ONE:
I need to know the steam square foot of the radiators so I can size the boiler properly.

There is a picture of one below. The sizes & quantity of each are:
(2) - 51 inches long
(5) - 54 inches
(4) - 20 inches
(2) - 30 inches
(5) - 37 inches

All 18 radiators are 5" inches deep and have 3 lines in the fins about 5/8" in diameter. They all have 3/4" supply and 1/2" return.

QUESTION TWO:
I need to know if I hooked up the direct vent trap correctly AND how it works. I could not tell from the “Lost Art of Steam” book picture. I don’t know if it was connected properly on the old boiler but I did it the same way. I have a picture of it below.

QUESTION THREE:
I also need to replace 8 of the straight radiator globe valves but can’t find them. Does anyone know a supplier?

Thank you very much for your help!
Larry

Steamhead

You Can't Stop a Trane, Larry

We just repiped part of one- go to

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&Thread_ID=10135&mc=10

for some pics.

I find many of these beauties in and around Baltimore. They're basically straight Vapor with radiator traps and Return Traps. The operating principle is the same as the system described on pages 235-242 of Lost Art, though the one pictured there is a Dunham (the Trane system on pages 257-258 is an earlier version than what you have). The main difference is that Trane used ordinary main vents on the steam mains and dry returns instead of a Float Trap/Air Eliminator as used on the Dunham and other Vapor systems. Look up, you'll see these vents. If you need to replace them, your kids or grandkids can use them for weightlifting.

If you do need to replace those vents, the best choice is the Gorton #2. It's a high-capacity vent that can run rings around Hoffmans. Go to

www.gorton-valves.com

if you can't find them in your area.

To determine the ratings of these convectors ("radiators"), we need to know their height. Trane convectors are listed in Dan's book "E.D.R." which you can order on the Books and More page of this site. But if you tell us their heights, one of us can look them up while you're waiting for your copy of "E.D.R." .

Your pic of the Direct Return Trap looks OK. I prefer hooking up those steam lines to the header, but your line should get dry steam if the header is properly installed.

For the radiator valves, try contacting Tom Tunstall at tptunstall@tunstall-inc.com . Their site is

www.tunstall-inc.com .

Tom says his company can rebuild any old Vapor valve, and his company is known for its high-quality gear. They can also rebuild the Direct Return Trap if needed, but you'd have to ship it to them.

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Larry Simmons

Can't Stop a Trane (HA!)

Thank you for your help! I am guessing that the Trane convectors are about 2 inches tall. That is the one measurement I did not think to get. When I get back to the office I'll check out the websites you directed me to. I can't go back to the house to measure again with as often as I have been there this week. My best guess will have to do.

I appreciate your help.

Unknown

Larry, the cabinet height,

not the element height....

Noel

Steamhead

Yes, we definitely need the cabinet heights

since the height affects the ratings by as much as 50%. Not worth guessing, you'll have to measure them or ask the owner to.

BTW, I've seen Vapor as far south as Nashville- what part of the South are you in? And how about some more pics?

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Larry Simmons

HEIGHTS

We're further south than Nashville. Highly unusual. This is the first one I have seen in my 20+ years in the business.

I will go back to the house and measure the cabinet heights tomorrow. Is what you need the width & height of the covers over the convectors? This is my first time with this type of thing. This website & the books I got here have been great.

Thank you guys very much.
Larry

Steamhead

Right

the height and width of the cabinets (also called enclosures if they're set into the wall) as well as the depth. If the front of the cabinet protrudes into the room slightly, add this to your depth.

How much further south? This is getting interesting. Who has the southern-most Vapor system?

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Larry Simmons

HERE ARE THE HEIGHTS!

Here are the dimensions of each convector:
(1)- 24" tall x 36" long x 4" deep
(1)- 24" tall x 53" long x 5.5" deep
(4)- 24" tall x 60" long x 5.5" deep
(1)- 40" tall x 30" long x 5.5" deep
(1)- 24" tall x 30" long x 5.5" deep
(4)- 36" tall x 22" long x 4" deep
(1)- 24" tall x 54" long x 5.5" deep
(1)- 40" tall x 60" long x 5.5" deep
(2)- 24" tall x 43" long x 4" deep
(2)- 24" tall x 42" long x 5.5" deep

If you can figure out the steam sq. ft. I'd appreciate it!

Thank you,
Larry

Steamhead

Capacities in square feet EDR

24" tall x 36" long x 4" deep= 22.5

24" tall x 53" long x 5.5" deep = about 50 (only shows 48" and 56" lengths)

24" tall x 60" long x 5.5" deep= about 57 (only shows 56" and 64" lengths)4 of these= 228

40" tall x 30" long x 5.5" deep= 34

24" tall x 30" long x 5.5" deep= 29.5

36" tall x 22" long x 4" deep= 13, 4 of these= 52

24" tall x 54" long x 5.5" deep= 53.5

40" tall x 60" long x 5.5" deep= about 69 (only shows 56" and 64" lengths)

24" tall x 43" long x 4" deep= 28, 2 of these= 56

24" tall x 42" long x 5.5" deep= about 40, 2 of these= 80 (only shows 40 and 44" lengths)

Grand Total= 674.5 square feet EDR.

These came from the Hydronic Rating Handbook, since my copy of E.D.R. is at the office.

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Larry Simmons

THANK YOU & 1 More Thing

Thank you for figuring out all that for me. What should the total capacity of the boiler be?

Thank you again,
Larry

Steamhead

Boiler Net Rating

should equal or exceed the EDR of 674.5 square feet. This includes a 33% pickup factor, which should be fine for that convector-equipped Vapor system assuming the pipes are well insulated.

That said- One of my friends, Dave "Boilerpro" Bunnell, has been experimenting with applying boilers to steam systems where the boiler's rating is less than the amount of radiation. If the boiler on this system is rated somewhat less than 674.5 square feet, it may still work OK if you vent and fine-tune it properly. You can e-mail Dave at boilerpros@insightbb.com if you need further.

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