Started another big steamer

Unknown

They pull me back in . This one was a huge Mills boiler , on a 2 pipe steam system heating 4 stores and a few apartments . It's sitting in a 2 1/2 foot pit . I was very lucky to have a separate crew do the ripout for us . For perspective , theres a shot of one of the guys ripping it out , next to the beast . We will be installing a Burnham boiler tomorrow .

This system has 2 - 4 inch header pipes and 4 - 1 1/2 inch returns . 2 are wet returns and 2 are dry . All of them connect into a condensate pump . I also included a pic of the end of one of the mains and the F and T traps .

With the 2 dry returns , they connect together up high with a main vent after the tee , then they drop down into the wet returns , which all feed into the condensate pump . My question to the 2 pipe experts - should I drop these dry returns down into the wet returns individually - with a separate main vent for each ? I realize no steam should be in these dry returns , but would separating the pipes help the system run better ? Thanks in advance guys .

Steamhead

On 2-pipe

it doesn't matter if the dry returns connect together before they are dripped. The reason, as you state, is that there should not be any steam inside them. Most of the ones I've seen, especially on Vapor, are connected that way.

How much pressure are you running on that system? I'll bet you could ditch the pump if you could get the pressure low enough. The pump may have replaced an old Return Trap, which was a pre-Vaporstat method of making sure the water would return if the pressure got too high.

BTW- those are straight thermostatic traps, not F&Ts.

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Unknown

Oops , yep , youre right

Steamhead , I do get my phrasing wrong alot . Like always confusing the A and B dimensions .

With the dry returns , I was just thinking of having a separate vent for each pipe . Do you think one vent will be OK for the 2 returns ? I am assuming this new boiler will displace the air much , much faster .

Another question I have is - what is the best place to have the main vents on the 2 wet return runouts ? I didn't see any near the traps at the end .

I plan on running the boiler pressure as low as possible with a L404 . I would rather not keep the pump in the system - I don't like the loss of control of the water being dumped back into the boiler . And someone also sold them a 47-2 , so I gotta be real careful here . Thanks alot Steamhead , I really appreciate it .

kevin coppinger_4

are you using ....

a V-9 ? Nice unit...goes together nice...have you done one before?kpc

Unknown

Me too, me too

I do 3 pipe, too. Any system with both high and low returns is a vapor system. Never forget that. (Quoted as best as I remember from Lost Art)

If you leave the tank in, the tank vent is the only one you need. Pipe the drop so that it doesn't trap water.

I agree with Frank, I bet the tank is insurance. I have to qualify this, though. Sometimes you DO need one. Don't take it away till you know.

With that high return, I feel that you MUST vent it at the low end. If you vent it at the high end, the heavy load of condensate at startup gets blown uphill by the heavy load of air at startup, and it bangs like....

Noel

Steamhead

Dry return vents

At the moment, these vent into the condensate pump tank as Noel says. The steam mains vent thru those traps into the tank also.

UNLESS, the drip lines don't pitch down into the tank. In this case they hold water, and vents are needed since the air will not pass thru a water seal.

If you ditch the pump, you'll need vents. Get a carton of Gorton #2s!

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Unknown

Yes , we installed a V 9

on another steamer last year . It took some getting familiar with , but when we got the system running it performed flawlessly . This is what I would call a boiler made for steam .

Unknown

It was hard to see

the pitch of the pipes with the boiler in the way , but they looked like they pitched down into the tank . I'll take a better look tomorrow . With about 95 % of our steamers being one pipe , I dont get to work in these situations much . The customer told me he had the pump replaced last year , so you can guess what he'd say if I told him it might not be needed . So it's gonna stay . What do you think about having the 47-2 on this boiler ? You think I should keep the feeder disconnected and use a slower filling feeder ? Thanks again .

Unknown

Yo Noel

You shoulda went to Sweeneys - the ribs were great . I will definitely keep the low end vent on the tank . Looks like I gotta raise the high vent up too . I'm also gonna take a closer look at the piping - Dan is right , we have to look at the whole system , not just near the boiler . Thanks Noel .

Steamhead

You could use

a PRV or other flow restrictor on the 47-2, but if that's a boiler-feed pump rather than a straight condensate return pump you'll need a pump controller (150MD?) rather than that 47-2.

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