system with no hartford loop

Dave_23

Noel,
The equalizer is piped into the other side of the boiler, exactly opposite the Hartford loop tapping. Is this OK?

jim_14

if a boiler is replaced

with an automatic water feed and no hartford loop and the return pipe breaks or leaks then does the boiler drain down and cause the auto feed to kick on and refill the boiler?

This will go on all day (boiler draining and being refilled) and flood your basement?

Al Letellier

flooding

It sure can but depends on the feeder and cutoff combo. Some will delay fill and cycle only a few times and them shut down, but generally speaking, ya, you'll get a flood. You should ALWAYS install a Hartford loop (except on counterflow systems). It's required by code here in Maine. A few extra bucks, some pipe and a little extra labor to install one is well worth the investment.

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Dale

trigger

The trigger for the steam boiler water feeder is the low water cut off, the water volume out of the feeder depends on alot of things and may or may not equal the leak loss rate. The hartford loop always works and is always speced unless a feed pump is used.

jim_14

from what I understand

a hartford loop is an upside down "U" right before going into the boiler?

Steamhead

Correct

the return line rises to a point at about the lowest permissable water level in the boiler, then connects to the equalizer. This way if the return leaks, the water cannot drop too low.

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jim_14

thanks

for the explaination!

Dave_23

Hartford Loop

Here is a picture of the Hartford loop on my WM steam boiler.

Unknown

Check your manual,

That looks a bit dangerous to me. The equalizer connection isn't there.

Noel

Steamhead

No. Negative.

The Hartford Loop must connect to the equalizer to work. You need to get that re-piped right now.

You can download the boiler manual, which includes the proper piping diagram, from

www.weil-mclain.com

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Dave_23

Hartrord loop

Understood. Will repipe. However, what is the theory behind connecting the equalizer to the top of the harford loop? Why is this critical? Just trying to understand.

Unknown

The equalizer is what breaks the syphon

if the piping breaks below the boiler water level.

The equalizer lets steam blow into the return, but keeps the water up at the hartford loop tee connection inside the boiler.

What you have on your return is an S-trap. I have one on my kitchen sink. My kids called it "The sink monster", because of the noises from it syphoning, trying to get air in.

Noel

Dave_23

Hartford/Equalizer repiping

Noel,
Thanks for the info. Referring to my picture below, would it be acceptable to connect the equalizer at the point where the existing 90 degree elbow turns downward toward the draincock? ie replace elbow with T.

Unknown

I would refer to the book

The picture in your instruction book, or words from the factory, would be a guide to go by.

I'd rather not take the liability of reccomending changes on another company's product, as I work for a different boiler company.

Noel

Dave_23

Repipe

Help. You've been kind enough to alert me to the condition of my Hartford loop. However, when referring to the WM manual, it simply provides dimensions. The WM diagram is somewhat representative and may not be practical given space limitations, existing piping, etc. in a real world install. I'm just looking for some validation on my suggested approach. Of course any validation requires that I'm not violating the WM specs and dimensions called out in there piping diagram.

Robert O'Connor_4

Maybe

you can get the answers you need from a Weil Mclean rep. They are versed in the nuances of their boilers and what will work with them.

They have very sharp people. Just not here on the wall very often.

Regards,
Robert

Dave_23

Spoke with WM Engineering

Upon the advice from this board, I called WM to ask about my hartford/equalizer piping. Sent the WM engineer pictures via email for discussion. His comments were as follows: 1. The boiler has no hartford requirement since all returns are overhead. 2. The chance of the returns rotting is nil since they're not underground. 3. The boiler can't be dry-fired because it is protected by the low water cutoff. However, the boiler can be "boiled dry" if the LWC fails, so clean it/check it annually. 4. Don't change anything on your piping. Thanks to all for the sound advice.