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system with no hartford loop

Dave_23
Dave_23 Member Posts: 190
Noel,
The equalizer is piped into the other side of the boiler, exactly opposite the Hartford loop tapping. Is this OK?

Comments

  • jim_14
    jim_14 Member Posts: 271
    if a boiler is replaced

    with an automatic water feed and no hartford loop and the return pipe breaks or leaks then does the boiler drain down and cause the auto feed to kick on and refill the boiler?

    This will go on all day (boiler draining and being refilled) and flood your basement?

  • Al Letellier
    Al Letellier Member Posts: 781
    flooding

    It sure can but depends on the feeder and cutoff combo. Some will delay fill and cycle only a few times and them shut down, but generally speaking, ya, you'll get a flood. You should ALWAYS install a Hartford loop (except on counterflow systems). It's required by code here in Maine. A few extra bucks, some pipe and a little extra labor to install one is well worth the investment.

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  • Dale
    Dale Member Posts: 1,317
    trigger

    The trigger for the steam boiler water feeder is the low water cut off, the water volume out of the feeder depends on alot of things and may or may not equal the leak loss rate. The hartford loop always works and is always speced unless a feed pump is used.
  • jim_14
    jim_14 Member Posts: 271
    from what I understand

    a hartford loop is an upside down "U" right before going into the boiler?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,161
    Correct

    the return line rises to a point at about the lowest permissable water level in the boiler, then connects to the equalizer. This way if the return leaks, the water cannot drop too low.

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  • jim_14
    jim_14 Member Posts: 271
    thanks

    for the explaination!
  • Dave_23
    Dave_23 Member Posts: 190
    Hartford Loop

    Here is a picture of the Hartford loop on my WM steam boiler.
  • Check your manual,

    That looks a bit dangerous to me. The equalizer connection isn't there.

    Noel
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,161
    No. Negative.

    The Hartford Loop must connect to the equalizer to work. You need to get that re-piped right now.

    You can download the boiler manual, which includes the proper piping diagram, from

    www.weil-mclain.com

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  • Dave_23
    Dave_23 Member Posts: 190
    Hartrord loop

    Understood. Will repipe. However, what is the theory behind connecting the equalizer to the top of the harford loop? Why is this critical? Just trying to understand.
  • The equalizer is what breaks the syphon

    if the piping breaks below the boiler water level.

    The equalizer lets steam blow into the return, but keeps the water up at the hartford loop tee connection inside the boiler.

    What you have on your return is an S-trap. I have one on my kitchen sink. My kids called it "The sink monster", because of the noises from it syphoning, trying to get air in.

    Noel
  • Dave_23
    Dave_23 Member Posts: 190
    Hartford/Equalizer repiping

    Noel,
    Thanks for the info. Referring to my picture below, would it be acceptable to connect the equalizer at the point where the existing 90 degree elbow turns downward toward the draincock? ie replace elbow with T.
  • I would refer to the book

    The picture in your instruction book, or words from the factory, would be a guide to go by.

    I'd rather not take the liability of reccomending changes on another company's product, as I work for a different boiler company.

    Noel
  • Dave_23
    Dave_23 Member Posts: 190
    Repipe

    Help. You've been kind enough to alert me to the condition of my Hartford loop. However, when referring to the WM manual, it simply provides dimensions. The WM diagram is somewhat representative and may not be practical given space limitations, existing piping, etc. in a real world install. I'm just looking for some validation on my suggested approach. Of course any validation requires that I'm not violating the WM specs and dimensions called out in there piping diagram.
  • Robert O'Connor_4
    Robert O'Connor_4 Member Posts: 88
    Maybe

    you can get the answers you need from a Weil Mclean rep. They are versed in the nuances of their boilers and what will work with them.

    They have very sharp people. Just not here on the wall very often.

    Regards,
    Robert
  • Dave_23
    Dave_23 Member Posts: 190
    Spoke with WM Engineering

    Upon the advice from this board, I called WM to ask about my hartford/equalizer piping. Sent the WM engineer pictures via email for discussion. His comments were as follows: 1. The boiler has no hartford requirement since all returns are overhead. 2. The chance of the returns rotting is nil since they're not underground. 3. The boiler can't be dry-fired because it is protected by the low water cutoff. However, the boiler can be "boiled dry" if the LWC fails, so clean it/check it annually. 4. Don't change anything on your piping. Thanks to all for the sound advice.
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