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Tankless vs indirect dhw -- how to choose?

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John Barry
John Barry Member Posts: 3
in THE MAIN WALL
I would like to install a 40 gallon storage tank to my tankless dhw heater but don't have the room, can I install 2-20 gallon tanks and if yes how do I pipe it series/parallel? where do I install the circ.and which tank has the thermostat.

Thaks

John Barry

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  • Annie Hall
    Annie Hall Member Posts: 28
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    More questions relating to the new house...

    We are definitely installing a propane-fired boiler and in-floor radiant heat in the new home we are constructing. Now I need to decide how we'll get our domestic hot water. I haven't chosen our HVAC contractor yet, and each of the several I've spoken to and gotten bids from for the radiant system have different ideas about the best way to get dhw. I need help understanding the pros and cons of each option, and how to evaluate the best choice for our situation.

    One contractor proposes a Burnham SP-3 boiler, and for dhw advises a Boilermate indirect-fired water heater. That is what his company does. He didn't propose any options (other than us taking care of our dhw needs by installing the traditional tank hot water heaters.)

    One contractor is very enthusiastic about the Triangle Tube boiler for both dhw and the radiant system. But it seemed to me that his "love affair" with this package had more to do with the fact that it comes complete, skid-mounted, and is then easily installed. He also does install indirect hot water heaters ("whatever you want"), but was vague on the advantages of one over the other, leaving me unable to make a decision.

    A friend has a tankless hot water heater. Her husband loves it, but she doesn't -- because no one can be using water in the house (even cold) at the same time that the hot water is demanded.

    Our builder typically installs two traditional gas-fired hot water heaters in series to give "plenty" of hot water (obviously the least efficient option, but the least expensive up front).

    I am not in favor of installing one or more traditional hot water heaters -- the idea of heating hot water 24/7 doesn't make sense to me. But the capital expense associated with the other options is significant. I need efficiency data, but also, it seems to me, information about reliability and length of life. Space is not an issue. We have enough room for any of these options. What else should I be considering in this decision?

    Thanks for the advice.
  • David Sutton_3
    David Sutton_3 Member Posts: 160
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    Hot water is what you want right?

    There are as many ideas and brands as there are people to put them in...
    The hole idea of installing a new system into a new house, is to get the biggest and best bang for your buck.

    I would recomend that you go to the "find a contractor" section of this site and find one that is close to you have him/or her come out and give you some options, the people on this site are pro's in every sence of the word and honest to.

    as far as the system choice, i would look into a hydronic system with a inderect , with outdoor reset, propane here is very costly to run, so you dont want the system running for no reason, i know this dose not fill all your questions but it will send you in the right place to find them...

    good luck and happy heating....David
  • David Sutton_3
    David Sutton_3 Member Posts: 160
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    John...

    What your looking for is know as a aqua-bank, these systems are prone to problems of all sorts and still require that your boiler hold a high temp..your fuel bill only stays down if its not running

    a inderect would be the best option,your boiler will be put on demand and come on only when the inderect needs reheating, and you dont have to put it right along side of the boiler thu closer is better, you can pipe in in another spot
  • jim_14
    jim_14 Member Posts: 271
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    will using an indirect water heater

    require you to leave the boiler on all year?

    Do the boilers on the market today give off a lot of heat in the area they are in?

    Im asking because my basement is small and its gets hot during the summer when the boiler is off and also because I have a dryer and a long duct vent run that adds to the heat factor.
  • David Sutton_3
    David Sutton_3 Member Posts: 160
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    most of the new...

    equipment has taken care of this, they are insulated good to help stop the standby heat loss,when a inderect is at its highest temp the jackets are still cool to the touch, these are made that way to hold there heat, most inderects can go 10-15 hrs without being used before they call to reheat themselves.

    As far as that dryer vent make sure its a good tight seal and not releaseing and lynt into the cellar, your heating system requires a lot of combustion air and too much lynt can get sucked in and cause a problem, if sealing it is a issue you can add outside air right ti the system ,thus preventing a problem...hope this helps
  • Annie Hall
    Annie Hall Member Posts: 28
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    Find a Contractor

    I did use the Find a Contractor option, but the (only) nearest contractor that came up is located in Seattle, and that's 1.5 hours away.

    The other post brought up a good point. How well does an indirect hot water heater system work in the summer, when I don't need hydronic heat in my house? There's 3 or 4 months a year around here when we typically don't use any heat.
  • David Sutton_3
    David Sutton_3 Member Posts: 160
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    Call him and he will come out...

    thats not a long drive i bet he comes out...if he cant ask him for some names in the area that he trust..David
  • Annie Hall
    Annie Hall Member Posts: 28
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    I'll do that

    Thanks for the advice.
  • David Sutton_3
    David Sutton_3 Member Posts: 160
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    Your very welcome

  • steve_26
    steve_26 Member Posts: 82
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    Indirect all the way

    I think you answered your own ques. Your friend can't use the hot water if someone is in the shower..say no more...

    Is your house all radiant? You might want to look at a condesing boiler, perfect for this application.Very efficient.Flue gas typically 20deg higer than return water temp. I like to use Viessmann but there are other boilers.
    Oh ya indirect heaters, Mega-Stor stainlees steel tank has a life time warranty good recovery,Viessmann stainless life time warrany but has better isulation around tank 3" thick with 1" boiler connections on the small tanks very fast recovery. we have 20 unit apartment bldg. with 2 120Gal Viessmann tanks no complaints for five yrs. now. Hope this helps good luck.
    By the way I loved the movie one of Woody's best
    steve
  • Annie Hall
    Annie Hall Member Posts: 28
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    Yeah, its a timeless film

    So do all tankless systems act that way? I thought maybe she just had a funky installation. The washing machine was running a cold water rinse cycle, and I couldn't get any hot water to the shower until we turned that washing machine off. That would drive me crazy!
  • steve_26
    steve_26 Member Posts: 82
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    no capacity

    Anie,
    tankless boilers are ok if you live alone,don't wash much cloths and never bath...I think they make great boat anchors. By the way your friends boiler may have a scaled heat-exchanger..You need storage capacity..

    How about them yankees?
    What kind of boiler are you thinking of putting in?

    steve
  • Joe Bavoso
    Joe Bavoso Member Posts: 1
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    indirects and gravity hot water boiler

    Sorry, my connection was cut off before I finished.
    My daughter bought a house with a gravity hot water boiler, and wants to replace an old gas-fired water heater with an indirect water heater. My questions are: Will this type of installation work? What problems should the installer be aware of? And what future problems might be experienced with this type of set-up? Thanks for your assistance.
  • Annie Hall
    Annie Hall Member Posts: 28
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    Burnham boiler

    There sure are differences of opinion about tankless water heaters! I do not live alone -- we are a family of 4 -- and bathtubs, showers and laundry facilities are all heavily used. Tankless systems seem like they would make sense -- why don't they work very well? We are on a well, and I am not sure that our water pressure is all that robust. It is within the normal range, but not on the high end. Will that have an effect?

    If we choose to go with an indirect water heater, we'd be running our house-heating boiler in the summertime solely to heat our hot water. Does that make sense?

    I need to learn more about boilers. Condensing vs whatever else there is and why one is better than the other. One radiant installer has spec'ed out a Burnham boiler for our project, with or without an indirect tank heater. Another guy really likes the triangle tube boiler for radiant and on-demand hot water, combined. I haven't seen the details of the other bids yet.

    We are looking to put in a boat anchor, too. But I wasn't planning on using a water heater for that job!
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