condensing oil furnaces

Jack_23

While I am reluctant to admit this, the first oil furnace I worked with when I got into the rep business was the Yukon. A hell of an apprenticeship...maybe just hell. Anyway, I cannot twll you how many homeowners calls I got where the statement was that the unit worked perfectly the first yr, was serviced, and never worked again. If there was ever a product which should have had dealer certification the Ultima EX-95 was it. Was being the key word. The Blue Angel worked well but the tray assemble was a PITA. If the retention head was not perfectly placed in the retention head you were screwed. Another big problem was that the burner was at the top of the unit and there were many oil/air problems.

By the time Yukon went out of business they had made the unit non-adjustable, meaning that the retention head was pinned and could only be inserted in the correct position. I still have one in my desk drawer, as a reminder. They also got rid of the air shutter on the burner and put a plate iwth a hole drilled in it. An they worked great! It was just to late.

The other problem was back pressure on the burner at ignition, but taht is a whole new topic.

I developed a slick cleaning method for these furnaces. If anyone is interested, drop me a note.

This furnace technology was originally developed by Wayne and I think a part of the technology sale to Yukon required the use of the Blue Angel, a good but very unforgiving burner. I would love to see one with a Riello.

That was an interesting couple years. BUT...I have to say that with the recognition of venting problems and costs of liners and the ability to get a true 95% and vent with PVC in a sealed combusiton system, I still believe in the technology.

From here, today, it is easy to say but I think they were on the right track. I'd love to take another crack at it. With the right company behind it, good engineers/burners and dealer certification it could work!

keith

Condensing oil furnaces

Hey guys, Generally speaking, what is your feeling about condensing oil furnaces.

Specifically, Any opinion on the " Dornback Condensing oil Furnace"?

Firedragon_4

I wish I had 5 bucks back for

every Yukon and Dornback I've seen ripped out. There were a lot of Yukons sold around Eastern Ma, not many Dornbacks because nobody wanted the Wayne Blue Angel that came on them 10-15 years ago.

Biggest problem with them all, lack of PROPER maintenance and inadequate training for service personnel on both install and tune-up procedures. I would like to see one of the new(??) ones running with a low NOX burner though.

But, it may also turn out that with low NOX burners and low sulphur fuel condensing may not be worth the previous aggravation points.

Firedragon_4

BTW,

if you can get your hands on a copy of the 1990 PMEF Oil Heat Technician's Manual you can see what was said about condensing furnaces back then on pages 273-274. Take special note of the 'draining and filter' requirements. This is, in my opinion, what killed the pooch the last time, but everything changes :-)

If you need a copy e-mail with your fax number and I'll send one out.

Bob Bona_4

Ditto

to that George. I was lucky enough to encounter 2 Yukons at 3 am that had smoked out the house.

Le Brea tar pits anyone? I think I saw a wooly mammal carcass in the secondary HX.

Ugh. Let's see how those low NOX puppies work out..

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J.C.A._3

Firedragon,

I'll add a couple of bucks ! Wish I had some of the dough spent to replace the cast iron drains that were changed to plastic after the "lack of proper treatment" made Swiss cheese out of them.

I loved the first few calls. ....My basement stinks, I think it's the furnace.. Luckily, I only saw 10 or so, but you're right in blaming the lack of training and/or reading the instructions. Guarenteed condensate pump replacement every 2 years. A company not to be mentioned, even went as far as offering tablets to be placed in them every so often, but it never got done!

Maybe technology will catch up, but unless the owners are educated on maintenance, it will be another fiasco.(or we might get into the 21st century and start selling low sulpher fuel, COULD HAPPEN!) Chris

Firedragon_4

BTW, and just for the record,

I'm refering to Yukon Oil Fired Furnaces, that is now in bankruptcy and has lawsuits that will NEVER be settled.

I'm not talking about Yukon-Eagle who produces an excellent line of wood and multi-fuel units. Just want to keep it straight. Credit where credit is due, blame where it belongs, FACT!

John Mills_3

What's the skinny

with the Blue Angel? I don't know much about oil but many of the units we have in this area have this burner including the one we had at the office til recently.

Bob Boltz

Condensing Furnace

Was just at the Adams factory,"Dornback" they are working on a new condensing furnace. It's called the Spartan, most of the clogged secondary heat exchangers came from higher sulphur fuel. I think with low sulphur fuel, less than 500 ppm, they will work.

Firedragon_4

I agree Bob,

we need the low sulphur if we're going to make all of this technology work. Until then, I wouldn't touch that thing with a ten foot pole.

Firedragon_4

It's really a nice burner and

was the second (1982) after the RIELLO to fire Euro equipment.

Three problems that have cursed this poor burner: 1.)poor representation, 2.)bad reputation due to the MSR and 3.)a very poor drawer assembly design.

If Wayne could make a drawer assembly that is as 'hacker proof' as the others they could get some market share and work on the other problems.

We sold a lot of them on Pensotti R-3's in the early 1980's and as replacements for Danheat/Oertli's. They worked great until it seemed the first tune-up, the drawer assembly fell apart and out they came. Too bad, it's one of the last burners with a cast-iron end cone.

Bob Boltz

Low Sulphur

George, we just started delivery of nothing but 500 PPM sulphur fuel. Hope to see the difference in service by next summer.

Firedragon_4

I think

they sold them around here with AFG's. I remember because we used a lot of 'starter helpers' and they made a huge difference by stabilizing the viscoisty and keeping the oil hot. I made up a timer/ delay for them on some jobs and they worked the nuts. Ended up building them and using them in a lot of places.

There's a lot of if's in your posting Jack and IF we could get everybody trained and certified on everything we would have one hell of an industry, FACT!

Firedragon_4

That's great!

Is that coming out of Sunoco on the pipeline to everyone, or is it 'special delivery'? I hope the usage is monitored closely because the service and operating numbers should be mind boggling.

I truly believe that low sulphur and low NOX burners are the key to our survival and a little more education won't hurt either.

Good luck to all concerned, I'll anxiously await the findings.

Firedragon_4

Whoa, what was I thinking!!!!

is that my buddy Jack from Westboro?

Hey, whatever happened to that lunch we were supposed to have???

Alan R. Mercurio

I spoke with a fuel dealer at the AC Trade show. He was from New York (Forget his name now?) He was telling me that low sulphur is all he had been using for about a year or more at that time I believe. and he stated that he's already seeing the difference (reduction) In oil and combustion related service calls.

He said he charges his customers a little more money but has been able to sell them on the value. This guy should be out giving classes!

It'll be interesting to see where all this goes.

Your friend in the industry,
Alan R. Mercurio

Oil Tech Talk

Jack_23

lunch

yes, George and it beats the hell out of me. Let's get together.

keith

Thanks

Thanks for the feed back guy's. My company is looking into promoting these as a high efficiency option.
Proper installation, burner set up and follow up service appear to be the answer I was looking for. Just like any other piece of equipment but with less tolerance for guesstimatating. Low sulfer fuel and Bio fuel are just around the corner as a norm for the oil industry. Should be a big help on the service side.
Thanks Again

Firedragon_4

Get the fuel and I'll try anything,

but these bad boys need the right go-juice or leave me out of it. When these things plug even dynamite can't clean them. That even takes in the fact that the Dornback had(?) a stainless heat exchanger. I can't even imagine what they coulda/woulda do to improve on that except maybe Kryptonite :-) or something?

We had one where we took the exchanger out, fired a salamander at it to heat it up and then water/powerwashed it, 8 hour cleanings I don't need.

As JCA also said the damage to plumbing systems was horrific. I wouldn't want to see these things banned by the Plumbing Boards, remember most of them are also the Gasfitter's Boards. That kind of PR, oilheat just doesn't need either.

That lit is on the way Keith.

Firedragon_4

I'm in on Thursday & Friday,

probably easier on you to call me.