Hot Water Baseboard Sheet Metal

Earthfire

if he is renting one of the apartments at 10% over the cost of the apartment on your mortgage. JMHO

KBCinque

Hot Water Baseboard Sheet Metal

I have a single hydronic heating system in an apartment building I purchased and I want to replace the 3-pieces of sheet metal that cover the heater elements in each baseboard unit. The building is 25+ years old and the old sheet metal is rusted, bent-up and has at least 10 coats of paint on it. In the home I live in, I have successfully removed, sanded, painted and re-installed similar pieces of sheet metal, but the material in the apartment building is just too beat-up to even try.

A plumbing wholesaler sells a product that is manuactured by Embassy. It appears that they are the only manufacturer who makes panels large enough to hand the 2.5 inch square heat diffusers that the rather aged (but working fine) heating system utilizes.

The problem is that the wholesaler will not sell directly to me, only to plumbing contractors. I contacted a retail outlet and their prices were absolutely ridiculous at $80 for each ten foot panel!

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can acquire the new panels at a reasonable price?

I have a plumbing contractor friend who could buy the material for me from the wholesaler. Is 10% above what he pays an appropriate amount to offer him for his effort in ordering the material for me? I would do all of the removal and installation myself and would even pick-up the new material from the wholesaler if possible.

Thanks.

Al Letellier

appropriate price

I will ussually do what I can to help a friend, but get really irritated when asked to give something for nothing. What would be appropriate would be to ask him if he would be willing to get the material for you and what HE would want for his material and services. Not only appropriate, but courteous!!

To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"

KBCinque

Appropriate Percentage

Thanks for your thoughts Al.

I think I made it clear that I wasn't looking for "something for nothing" when I mentioned offering 10%. I've dealt with plumbing wholesalers who will deal directly with me since I am a licensed real estate broker and property manager.

Has this helped me to obtain better pricing from plumbing contractors? Absolutely! I don't object to paying the union rate for a plumber (around $75 per hour) but I think it is patently ridiculous to mark-up the cost of large pieces of equipment (a new SlantFin unit for example) by 100%. Should the contractor be compensated for the time involved in ordering, paying for and picking-up material? Absolutely, but not at an exorbitant rate.

I've run across a few contractors who still believe we are in the "dark ages" when consumers were unable or unwilling to research how much the contractor was paying for material they were using. When I informed himm that I could obtain the same boiler for $2,000 less than what they planned to charge me they suggested that I find another contractor.

I thanked him for his advice and did exactly that. Ironically, the labor cost for the retrofit was almost exactly the same between the high-markup and lower-markup contractor. The high-markup bid spend as much time with me as the lower-markup contractor, yet he earned nothing. I didn't even haggle with the lower-contractor because his markup on the new furnace was about 10% more than what I could have purchased the unit for myself. It was worth the approximate $250 he made on selling me the unit to avoid the hassle of ordering and picking it up. It would not have been $2,500 though.

I'm still wondering if anyone knows of a supplier where I can order new panels for the baseboards myself.

Thanks.

don_9

Hello wetheads..And you to Steamhead.I usally dont say much just lurking in the corner.But!!
Mr Cinque touch a little part of me thats say hey wait a sec.
We has professional do not wish to see anyone in the dark,no
matter what year it is.
Whats does it matter at what markup one sell his equipment
for? If you dont like it you move on to one who is cheaper.
Ahh yes cheaper...now that word speaks volume,and actually
it has one meaning,the bottom line.
And just what does the bottom line mean...Well it goes like this.
In order for me to give you the bottom line price that you think that you deserve,I would have to look for an inferior
product,I would also have to sell it to you from my home because you think my markup is"Exorbiant".so I am unable
to have a shop to stock this equipment just in case you screw up that one and need another one that same day.
So now I have to avoid you when you do call.
Markup is what ever it take for me to be there and address
any concern you might have now are in the future.Less just call it peace of mind.And has we all know peace of mind is
expensive.Labor and markup are two different issue.
I wish I could hang in here and go alittle further to make my point,but got to run the crew is ready to roll.
Happy heating.

bill clinton_3

10% markup

Over the years, I have run into a number of established businesses that told me they would sell to me at cost + 10%. In every case, they were lying.

No plumbing/heating business can make a profit on a 10% markup. Period.

If the guy marked it up 50% he would probably still lose. You are almost guaranteed to have shipping damage with those sheet metal housings and you will of course demand replacements: At which point, the seller starts to lose money and wonders why he ever got into this mess--tried to help somebody and got burned for his trouble. I bet fifty bucks every contractor on this site has multiple experiences of just this.

That $80.00 per ten foot section sounds quite reasonable to me. If you came to me and offered that price, and I had the stuff on the shelf, I would be happy to sell. If I had to special order it, I might do it as a courtesy, but I would not expect to make money on the deal.

Bill Clinton

KBCinque

It's Starting To Make Sense, Now

Two things are starting to make sense to me now.

HealtingHelp.com is a thinly disguised venue for contractors to advertise and possibly find prospective customers. There's nothing wrong with that and I have only myself to blame for thinking it was a "self-help" forum for consumers to try and save money via the advice of other consumers.

Secondly, I did a poor job of describing the reality of the situation.

The manufacturer sells the material to the wholesaler in minimum quantities of 1200 feet. This is about double what I need for the entire apartment building and my other properties do no neet new sheet metal.

At no time would a plumbing contractor have to pay for, pick-up, deliver, or otherwise touch the material. The only reason I need the plumbing contractor is to use their account number at the wholesaler to order the material. The contractor would have 30 days to pay the wholesaler but I would pay the contractor immediately, plus whatever markup we agreed to. This is in no way similar to going to a contractors "shop" and buying something out of his storage racks. I don't gripe when a plumbing contractor charges me $1.28 for a single copper elbow that I could buy for $0.28. It's well worth the dollar to avoid having to stock a myriad of small parts and ultimately being one short of the type needed. It's a different story when buying a single "big ticket" item. Don't you folks "shop around" when you buy a new refrigerator or stove? Why should it be any different when buying a new boiler or forced air unit?

Ultimately the problem solved itself when I discussed it with another apartment owner friend of mine. He chuckled when I told him that the wholesaler sold "only" to licensed plumbing contractors. He's purchased from the wholesaler directly for years having simply used his own name and by adding plumbing and heating repairs to the end of it. The wholesaler is concerned with moving product and getting paid for it. Thus, I don't need any help from a contractor in order to obtain the new sheet metal.

In case anyone is interested:

The "retailer" who was willing to sell the 10 foot lengths for $80 marked it up over 100%. When I buy 600 feet from the wholesaler the cost per foot drops to $3.78 per foot (again, I am buying the 3 sheet metal portions only, not the copper pipe with the diffusers attached).

I wish I could mark-up my rents the same exhorbitant amounts. In fact, I'd be delighted to earn 10% return on equity on any of the buildings I own!

Several Home Depot stores are now selling entire home heating systems (forced air units). I think we're still a ways off from folks toting their own heating unit home in their pickup truck and trying to install it, however, Home Depot has plenty of contractors who will install it for a pre-determined fee. I doubt there is a contractor in America today who has the liberal return policy that Home Depot does, so the caveat about freight damaged or defective equipment being "eaten" by the contractor just doesn't provide the sense of security it used to. The important point to realize is that saavy consumers will be able to determine how much of the total expense is labor and how much is material mark-up. I don't mind paying the "going rate" for labor, in fact, I prefer union contractors because I believe their workers are the most knowledgeable and they earn a decent living. To me it makes sense that the "best" plumbers and electricians are going to work for union outfits because they usually pay the best. What I don't want to do is get gouged on the big ticket items, particularly when it is possible for me to determine what the contractor is actually paying for them.

Best of luck to all of you.