New baseboard on radiator loop

bob young

ever consider hiring a professional plumber before you destroy your complete heating system. in a few hours he could solve all your problems and explain the system and how it works and you could work on it yourself for the rest of your life. then as a bonus you can fix all your neighbors systems too. you wil be bigger than u.s. steel.

Patrick_23

New baseboard on radiator loop--no heat

I removed a cast iron radiator last fall when I removed a wall to enlarge a living room. I installed baseboard in the 'new' living room sized appropriately (using the Slant Fin software). I ran the baseboard in series AFTER another radiator but am not getting heat from the baseboard. I've been all over the board trying to find a solution but am not that close to one! I've got water, vented air. Not an venting issue, but a flow issue (I think).

Some additional info: circuit feed is 1" copper from boiler, then old 1.25" steel up to radiator, then back through old 1.25" steel and then into 3/4" copper/fintube, then back to boiler. I can hear some water moving through system (including the 3/4 copper return) but am not getting heat. Also, I've shut down additional 3 circuits so I could test for leaks, etc. so all my flow is going through this leg. Boiler gets up to 180 and shuts down, also causing circulator to shut down. Think I'd be better with a 'stat on the circulator but am just trying to get this modification to run first. I should also mention this was old 2 pipe system that was updated approx. 20 years ago with new Well-Maclein boiler. Some 2-pipe components and some newer copper. Am not sure if there are directional "Ts" on old steel pipe which is limiting flow. Could this be an issue?? I did remove a piece of 6' pipe with a T which I am thinking of cutting open to see what's inside the fittings, if anything. Any suggestions appreciated.

bigugh_4

Two pipe systems

1. youi have to make sure that the air is removed from both the supply and return. did your modification change that? 2. hearing water run in a line usually means air. 3. Your 3/4 BB may be such that the lasy water wants to go elsewherre. i.e. to much head in the 3/4" pipe. 5. upstream radiation cooling off the water before it comes to the BB. BB needs 'hot' water. 6. the circulater ? Have you looked inside it. It may be that the impeller is commpromised. I have seen these older systems take on new life with a re-built circulator or new one! bigugh

Patrick_23

One mod. I could make would be to run the heated water through the BB first, then through the radiator.

bigugh_4

A good

two tempertrue thermometer would show you this. ( A fluke brand is one) but feeling the pipe is also good (and cheaper) Whenever modifing system's it is a crap shoot if you are not very careful. Like has been posted so many times before here, a total building heat loss calculation is where to start, then the piping design. Mixing pipe sizes is always riskie. a Rule of thumb is there are four 1/2" pipes in a 1" pipe! and taken to extream, 2.8 3/4" pipes in a 1- 1/4" pipe. Of course the recriporcals of that for when pushing water through smaller pipe. How this is piped, may well be where the water is going, just leaving the BB cold. I really hope you may find the answere. water is at least visible, where electricity acts the same way but never leaves wet spots! bigugh

Patrick_23

What you said is true of electricity; I just wish measuring, cutting, cleaning, and soldering copper were as fast as cutting wire and running circuits! You really need to take your time with all of this plumbing work. My worst fear was having leaking connections, but that hasn't been a problem--getting heat is! Upon further thought, I am thinking of running the BB on a separate leg from the main line/feed off the boiler. Then I'd have five splits vs. the current four. I added some valves on the other branches with the thought of using them to balance flow more evenly once this modification is complete---up and running. On further thought, I could be looking at zoning the entire system sooner vs. later in order to solve this situation. I think I'd need to do 4 zones: 2nd floor, first floor (radiators), first floor (BB), basement. I did a heat loss calculation and (of course) the radiators are oversized, but I'd prefer to not mess with all the pipe-work feeding and returning from them. I've got so much 1.25" steel pipe criss-crossing the basement ceiling I'd probably have to level the floors once/if it's all removed!

chuck shaw

If I understand correctly,

Did you mix copper fin tube baseboard on the same zone as old cast iron radiators or cast iron baseboard? If you did the copperfin tube baseboard may never work "well" no matter how much you do to it. It is bad pratice to mix copper fintube with cast iron

Chuck Shaw

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Paul Mitchell

im with chuck

rule always was never mix copper and cast...

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Patrick_23

I was able to tap into the 1" copper leading to and from the boiler for heat/return lines for the baseboard. Heated up like a son of a gun last night, no leaks, everything is good.

As for calling the plumber and preventing a disaster, I think I've got a handle on HOW my system is set up and HOW it runs. The only way to WRECK the system would be if I didn’t have any idea how the system worked and then started cutting pipe, didn’t have a clue about soldering, measuring, or replacing pipe. What I needed was a few of the “finer points” of hotwater heating design. I’m an entomologist by day and a homeowner at night trying my best to understand, improve, and modify my family’s comfort level.

One final question, I’ve got the old 10-15 gallon expansion tank on my ceiling. Would you all recommend an air elimination valve/system to compliment the expansion tank? I’ve looked into SPARCO products and their use with the small expansion tanks but am curious whether or not that type of a set-up would help with the air elimination and valve bleeding.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question!