venture into radiant

Unknown

I find it curious that staple-up is BY FAR the most common system resulting in a GENERAL "not enough heat" complaint.

Wholesaler designs are the bane of our industry from our position. The contractor knows how to install it, but not why? If people would stick to their areas of expertise and avoid sticking their neck out for a dollar it would save everyone a lot of grief.

I'd be carefull Steve. Do your own calculations and choose your own equipment. Keep in mind, if the system dosen't work who will ultimately be responsable?

AOL IM: Radiantfloors

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lisa

venture into radiant

My first radiant job is coming up. My suppier is laying out the job.He is recomending staple up pex with no heat transfer plates. Does one application over the other have advantages or disadvantages. Thanks.... Steve

hot_rod

yup

Well said Gary. Staple up needs higher temperatures to work and can, as Gary points out, not work well at design temps if the design is off a bit.

Get thee to some edumakation centers such as Wirsbo's. The folks there will have you rolling in the aisles during the injection pumping explanation - trust me on this - and you'll come away with tons of knowledge and a strong desire to keep on learning.

If you fancy yourself a great go-cart driver, you'll have to beat my track record, which was the fastest ever recorded during a Wirsbo session! Some have blamed that on a track computer glitch, claiming it failed to consider a time-out (no doubt resulting from an infraction from Mr. Black Flag himself)and a re-start where I was a scant 50 yards from the finish line, but de facts is de facts & I've got the printed results to prove I did a lap in well under 8 seconds!

The radiant business is fun, but only if you're in control of your own destiny.

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Mike T., Swampeast MO

Bare-tube systems DO work--even in conditions that some (including me) believe that they shouldn't...

The success stories seem to have ONE THING in common. An INDIVIDUAL who has studied, learned "the numbers" and developed a complete SYSTEM that works for them. The SYSTEM involves EVERY aspect--equipment, layout, calculation, installation, control, etc.

The failures seem to have ONE THING in common as well. "My suppier is laying out the job."

This is not to say that all bare-tube systems designed by individuals are perfect and that all designed by suppliers are rotten--it's just seems a common thread with both successes and failures.

Bare-tube systems often seem to work at the fringe of physical possibility.

Were this my first radiant system I would NEVER let its' success hinge on a supplier whose best interest may or may not be in producing a comfortable, efficient and reliable SYSTEM.

John Jr

Supplier

Steve don't trust your supplier use the plates. I have to look at and try to fix so many systems designed by suppliers. Radiant Heat and snow-melt is all I do period. The guy designing your system should be the guy that will be there with you installing it. Listen to Gary and Dave!

Mike is right to if you are the one that will be doing all the work including the insulation. I have found most insulation guy come in and just shovel the insulation in not keeping in mind the air gap. When that happens it doesn't matter how good you installed the system your still depending on the other guy to do his job correct. With plates it doesn't matter. "Push that insulation right up in there".

Mike T., Swampeast MO

The \"Rad Pad\"

Available at this site in "Books & More" is an EXTREMELY useful tool.

LOTS of information compressed into a very small space.

Play with it and research what you don't understand.

Paul Rohrs

Yup.....

I am a wholesaler. I design as if I were going to occupy the place myself. (If you hold yourself to a higher standard, you will not be the BANE of the industry.)

USE PLATES.

Water temps are key when using staple-up. The use of plates aid in using the reset temperature to maximize comfort. People are afraid of what they don't understand. Apparently, (my guess) is that your wholesaler doesn't understand the importance of overcoming the R-values of floor coverings, etc. I do not like staple-up in general, I think they are used only when someone wants the least expensive Lexus on the market. You must listen to your customer, and....sometimes it is the only answer.

Use Plates. You will be glad you did.

Regards,

PR

Bob Bona_4

which reminds me

I lost to Mr. Black Flag by 1/1000 of a second. If I hadn't taken so long to fiddle with the D ring on my helmet, Wes's reign on the track would have been a sweet memory.

LOL Dave, and good post.

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hot_rod

AND

When using plates, don't scrimp - use the heavier extruded variety. Noise can be a very real factor with the thin flimsy plates unless you build in injection mixing with constant or nearly constant pumping.

Injection is the sexy vixen of mixing strategies!

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Unknown

Paul,

You would also love to sell him heat transfer plates;-)

If I could find a supplier like you Paul, I wouldn't waste so much time in the office.

All I'm saying to Steve is: "Boy, you gotta understand what you know. "

Gary

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steve_6

thanks

thanks guys for your input. I'm sure I'll have more questions later. Thanks again....Steve