Buderus Boiler

Robert O'Connor_4 · October 2003

Carlin is very good in this application.

Regards,

Robert

Rich_14 · October 2003

Im installing a new heating system in my home .Im doing away with my propane fired forced hot air system and my electric hot water heater. (Natural gas is not available on my block) I want to go with oil/baseboard heat . I want to ue the Buderus G115 boiler and the L series horizontal hot water tank and the logomatic contols and a riello burner . I like the fact I can direct vent this system .Does anyone have opinions on Buderus systems versus say a Peerles or Weil-Mclain ?
Thanks, Rich

Steve Ebels · October 2003

One of the main issues

With oil is keeping the flue passages clean. This is exceptionaly easy to do with th Buderus. We've installed many 115's and have had superior results with all of them. You'll never be sorry you went with hot water heating!!

Unknown · October 2003

Rich,,,

I am curious why you would want to use diesel fuel rather than utalizing LPG if the gas distribution system is in allready place? Buderus G124X series is a great boiler as well.

I Have used quite a few of their products. The G115 Dirrect vent setup used a Riello BF3 burner. This is the system I chose to put in my own house. That has been the weak link in the system. Many problems with the pre/post purge controll Riello burner. I understand that the problem was widespread and not yet FULLY under control.

If you have the room in your mechanical room, You will definantly want to use an ST tank rather than an L tank. Recovery is slightly improved due to the tank's geometry and if you ever have had to change out a horizontal tank as I have, you too would wish you had used a vertical tank. Believe me!! The Ecomatic control is also worth the money. Pays for itself.

IMHO; Buderus is a GREAT company and their customer service is First Class all the way. They also have a great new website with a forum similar to this one. Hope this helps.

Visit:

http://www.buderus.net/forum/active_topics.asp?FID=9

Gary Wallace AOL IM; Radiantfloors

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Rich_14 · October 2003

Hi Gary , the reason I do not want to use the propane is because its very expensive . I live on Long Island and it is almost twice as much per gallon than oil .I have a 100 gallon propane tank on the side of my house that I would rather not have there . As for the burner Buderus also sells a Beckett with thier boiler. Thanks ...Rich

Bill NTSG · October 2003

Rich

Don't overlook the Carlin burner option. Beckett and Riello are both good, but most of my experience [all positive] has been with the Carlin EZ for direct vent.

Unknown · October 2003

Yep , I live on the island also

and used to have propane for the oven , and it seemed more expensive to cook with it than using electric . That was around 10 years ago . Whats the price of LP nowadays ?

I've only installed a few Buderus with the Riello burner ( not for the direct vent ) , and they performed flawlessly .

Rich_14 · October 2003

Hi Ron ,these propane companys make up their own prices ,I use Long Island Bottled Gas .One day they want 1.70 per gallon then the next they want 2.20 per gallon then when I tell them to come take the tank away they lower the price right away !I need a delivery now and they want 1.44. I have to threaten them that im switching companys to keep the price reasonable ,they are all the same .
I have a small 2 bedroom house with a crawl space in Lake Grove . Right now im adding a bedroom and a den with a full basement under the extension .I will be putting the boiler in the basement and will be direct venting it. I need someone for the installation .The basement should be done by the end of next week ,and I will have the shell up the week after that .Any intrest in doing the job ? Rich..

Unknown · October 2003

Ok. Why the LT tank?

The only reason for using a horizontal tank is a mechanical room that has been built too damn small. Some guys use the horizontal tanks because they think they "look cool". That's not my bag baby. I like a well thought out boiler room and if I got the room I'm using a ST/vertical DHWH. Makes no sense to do it any other way given the improved recovery rate over the L tanks. I think stupidity whenever I come across a LT or Horicell tank when they have the WHOLE BASEMENT to use. Looks like ego has reared it's ugly face here. I.M.H.O.

Gary Wallace AOL IM; Radiantfloors

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Unknown · October 2003

Rich

I work for Meenan Oil and I would love to pass on your info to our sales department . Or you can give them a call 516-783-1000 . In general we do not install Buderus on a regular basis , but the 4 or 5 installs I've handled have worked out great . It's suprising that we haven't had a bigger demand for them since the price dropped to about the same as a conventional boiler with an indirect heater . Wish I had some pics of the Buderus jobs , but they were installed before I had my digital camera .

If you decide to go conventional , the Peerless is a fine boiler ( and I have plenty of pics of them ) . I've installed quite a few without any major problems whatsoever . Good luck on the project Rich .

Steve Eayrs · October 2003

If taking pride in how something looks when I'm finished is ego, than I guess I have ego, but I will have to disagree with the stupidity statement.

But the main reason I like the horizonal tanks is it gets the boiler up off the floor. A lot of boilers are in the garage, where the burner needs a min. of 18" off the floor. No need to build a stand for the boiler. Besides who can't use the extra room. Most of the time the output of the horizonal will take care of the load. Another option is the LT-200 tank for bigger demand. I do use the vertical tanks too, on ocassion, but have yet to see many boiler rooms too big.

Your original reason for not liking the horizonal tanks was because you have had to change them out. How many? What was the failure? Any others out there ever ran into a bad LT tank? I have had 100% good results so far. First ones I installed were over ten years ago. Maybe 200 or so installed.

Steve

kevin coppinger_4 · October 2003

I have a buderus...

in my own house...DO NOT use the Riello for the Direct Vent....nothing but trouble! Carlin EZ1- P10 is the only option ...even over the Beckett AF 2. I have had problems w/ the BF series. You don't have a chimney to use? less problems all around...and you could use the regular Riello f3. I also like the Phase 3 for the Hot water tank...nothing againt the Buderus just better priced and it is a great product.kpc

PS.- If you do go with the Direct Vent option use the Aerocowl exaust hood the Field Concentric type is nothing but trouble too....you will get cross contamination in almost every situation....

Rich_14 · October 2003

Kevin , I will take your advice and go with aerocowl termination . There are 2 pipe options ,flexible insulated 4" stainless steel oil vent or standard 26 gauge galvanized vent pipe .Which did you use ? Also do you have any pictures of the set up? Thanks, Rich

kevin coppinger_4 · October 2003

i used the....

4" flex. gives you better clearance numbers and longevity over the galvy. I don't own a digital camera so i can't post pictures as of yet...kpc

Jim S · October 2003

My two cents

If you`re at this phase of construction why not box out an area for a flue through the roof and eliminate the need for a direct venting option?

Jim S · October 2003

My two cents

If you`re at this phase of construction why not box out an area for a flue through the roof and eliminate the need for a direct venting option?

Rich_14 · October 2003

Hi Jim , I would do that except my wife thinks its ugly having a stainless steel chimney . She also does not like the way they look when the are boxed out and vinyl sided .

Big Ed · October 2003

Kevin

I found a problem using the standard well with the Buderus hot water sensor(does not fit) ..While the Buderus tank clamps it to the tanks surface ...What do you do ? Someone mentioned to skin of the sensors cover???? Which I'am afraid to do....

Robert O'Connor_4 · October 2003

She'll

Think a black stain on the side of your house is even uglier.

Its just a matter of time with any direct vent or powervent oil. Trial for ignition standards are way too long.

JMHO,

Robert

kevin coppinger_4 · October 2003

I have only worked...

once with the Buderus water heater. Used a Honeywell 4006. Sometimes the wells can be tricky and tight. I really like the weil- mclain plus series for the money. There are many good choices. kpc

Jim S · October 2003

You should try

to persuade her to look into it.

A chimney isn`t a mechanical device and therefore won`t break down in the dead of winter and leave you without heat.

The way I see it ,it`s one less thing to break,but that`s my opinion.

kevin coppinger_4 · October 2003

rich...

jim does have a good point. What you should get a copy of the ionstallation manual and see what they want for requirements...distance off ground, side of house (pref. South facing)just don't want surprises.kpc

Warmfoot · October 2003

Burners

We install all our Buderus 115 boilers with Riello or Carlin. Have had horrible experiences with Becketts on Buderus. Mainly, dialing them in for maximum efficiency. As far as the side vent option - LOVE THEM. I think I have been the fortunate one that has never recieved a bad control on a Riello BF3 and we have put in about 20 over the last two years. my 2 cents.

Ernie Bogue

Master Hydronics LLC

Warmfoot · October 2003

Burners

We install all our Buderus 115 boilers with Riello or Carlin. Have had horrible experiences with Becketts on Buderus. Mainly, dialing them in for maximum efficiency. As far as the side vent option - LOVE THEM. I think I have been the fortunate one that has never recieved a bad control on a Riello BF3 and we have put in about 20 over the last two years. my 2 cents.

Ernie Bogue

Master Hydronics LLC

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Warmfoot · October 2003

Stain on Side Vent?

A well maintained boiler with a side vent shouldn't stain. When they aren't serviced on a regular basis is when they start to run bad!!

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Unknown · October 2003

Ok, not stupid

The point I was trying to make is the horizontal type tanks are designed for small footprint applications and low clearance. Not because they "look good" Hey, sometimes that's all we all have, ego. Knowing the difference between ego and appropriate is one of the things that seperates us from the Freddy Fluxbrush types.

I do like the boiler ontop setup. When it's prudent. Garagees closets Etc. I would have prefered a Verticell on the one and "only" tank I had to replace. They had PLENTY of room in there.

besides, I think they look better side-by-side;-) JMHO

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Unknown · October 2003

Noisy buggers too.

The dirrect-vent termination is also quite NOISY. Depending on where you penetrate the perrimiter. I suggest NOT near anyones bedroom window. Sounds like a hurricane comming. windows open? Need hot water? Indoor air quality just took a headder because the breese changed dirrection & your windows are open.

Use dirrect vent as a Last resort Trust me on this one. Build a verticle flue wheenever possable.

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Steve Ebels · October 2003

I'll second the vertical flue crowd

Direct sidewall venting is an option but, IMHO, it runs a distant second to a regular vertical flue chimney. As far as asthetics go it's very easy to install a surround of fake brick, stone or siding around the roof penetration. There are more important things to consider in a heating system design than looks and/or curb appeal. Time to set your foot down with the wife and say "this way is best and we'll live with it". A stainless natural draft chimney is what I recommend 100% of the time. Direct vent is an absolute last resort, seriously. There is even talk among the powers that be, codewise, of making a roof or at least a high sidewall termination mandatory due to exhaust fumes at ground level. This is for gas and oil. Some of the points that were made at the code meeting I attended were foreign objects placed in vents by kids, hazardous exhaust gases exiting at a level that humans inhabit, vents plugging off due to snow or ice and leaves or other debris blowing in the vent/intake. All of these are true.
JMHO

Rich_14 · October 2003

stainless chimney

ok im going with a stainless chimney.. The boiler will be in the far left back corner on the basement under a bedroom. Can I exit through the 2x12 rim joist then up the outside of the houses so it doest come through the bedroom ? Also what is the best burner to use for this application with the G115 boiler ? Thanks Rich....

mark anderson · October 2003

do not touch the carlin with the buderus not compatable.

Stay away from the carlin.I have info direct from buderus and personal experience.

The riello is a rolls royce though it scares some techs.

I had the carlin brand new and ended up tossing it.

The becket is a very simple setup I use them in my rental properties since it is easy to find a tech if your in japan on vacation.
do not bother with the computer the savings are marginal.
Go with a stone lined tank vaughn.This to is a rolls royce.

Robert O'Connor_4 · October 2003

partially plugged nozzles

weak transformers will all cause staining delayed ignition which will cause staining. Though I am sure you don't need oil burnere 101.

I agree regular maintenance will reduce the liklihood.

Regards.
Robert

John Abbott · October 2003

Let us not.........

lose touch with the LAWS of physics.A gallon of LPG contains 91,000 BTU a gallon of #2 heating oil contains 138,700 BTU.You do the math.

John

kevin coppinger_4 · October 2003

what model Buderus?

the 115 are great with the Carlin EZ and are VERY compatible....not sure if you are ref. to the 215 and the 99frd, there were some complaints.

What problems did you have?(details) All comments about riello were about the BF3/5 direct vent model only...and those were because of the post purge...from my tangle with 2 that went bad.

Can't even use a Beckett on a Buderus direct vent....whata are you refering to? kpc

mark anderson · October 2003

I was refering to thr g215 and the 99frd Not designed for the draft design of buderus.Posative versus negative draft Boiler.

mark anderson · October 2003

I see the confusion of me mentioning Beckett.I do not use Buderus boilers in my rental propertise so I end up using Becket.
I did not want to make it sound like im installing beckett on buderus.

I should of written my post more clearly,sorry.

Rich_14 · October 2003

riello issues

This was written by a Buderus rep. from the forum on their web site....... Riello is making improvements to the post purge control. We are informed that Riello is expected within the next couple of weeks to release the improved post purge control.

Buderus offers Carlin and Riello burners for a direct vent application. Both burners have been tested and are acceptable for use in a direct vent application on the G115 Buderus Boiler.

Historically both manufacturer's burners have performed very well. In choosing which is right for your home, we suggest you select a brand that your installer/service person is familiar with to insure efficient operation and service.

Warmfoot · October 2003

Riello

That is good to hear, No problems with Carlin, but Riello has always been our burner of choice with Buderus (and most other oil boilers) Lets hope they fixed it for good this time!

Ernie Bogue
Master Hydronics LLC

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Lee Ensminger · October 2003

Oil Direct Vent Boiler with Horizontal Tank

Have you considered the Crown Freeport ODV with a horizontal Mega-Stor. The ODV Freeport is a three pass scotch marine boiler and comes with a Carlin burner. The Mega-Stor is available in a 40 or 53 gallon.

You may check it out at www.crownboiler.com

Lee Ensminger
Crown Boiler Co.

Buderus Boiler

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